TEST: 5 DAWs 5 MBP Optical O/P You better read this :)

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toodamnhip
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Re: TEST: 5 DAWs 5 MBP Optical O/P You better read this :)

Post by toodamnhip »

James Steele wrote:Yeah... early warning on a penalty flag on this topic in regard to discussing religion.
Sorry James, I understand totally.
But this is just an argument that we are not dirt...that's all.

I could care less about making any sort of religious point, even though I totally respect those that do care, though I do not organize myself in such a way.
But I do have trouble thinking of us all as dirt, grains of sand on the beach of the universe..lol...

A bunch of grains of sand enjoying Beethoven are we all!!,,,lol..

I am ready for you to now chop my head off here..
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Re: TEST: 5 DAWs 5 MBP Optical O/P You better read this :)

Post by toodamnhip »

We could relate all of this back to an easier to understand argument.
The argument That the observer influences experiments.
Forget that I said "sprit"...replace it with "point of observation of the universe".
All of this would also relate back to the tests of DP.
As subjectivity amongst opinions of listeners to audio work stations is a good example of the difficulty in being scientific when people/observers and opinions are involved.

Because we are all different, all our observations influence the audio experiments we embark upon.

I would think that if we were all only electrons, our opinions would be way more similar.
As electrons are electrons, and
Water is water, it does the same thing all the time.
Sand is sand. etc
There are 0 variences to physical universe matter. It always behaves the same
For some reason, people don't EVER seem to do the same thing all the time.
Why is that?

Food for thought...
So take out my word spirit and replace it with "observer"
The arguments remain valid.
Sorry if the word "spirit" puts anyone on edge..lol
Last edited by toodamnhip on Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: TEST: 5 DAWs 5 MBP Optical O/P You better read this :)

Post by FMiguelez »

toodamnhip wrote: That is indeed the "trick" of the physical universe. To invalidate the universe of spirit/soul/mankind, whatever you choose to call it....with sheer numbers...
I will not try to dissuade you from your opinion that you and all of us are but a grain of sand....

But I and many others surely do not share such an opinion.
This is not a matter of opinion. What I said about us being inconsequential is a FACT (Look up Dark matter/dark energy/matter ratios).
A lot of people like thinking about this as "trickery" because it scares them to realize what's really out there and prefer to ignore it or seek refuge in their unproven beliefs (whatever they may be). But that does not change reality.

Like I said, I'm just paraphrasing modern cosmology, so it's not my or your opinion, but the observations of people who devote their lives studying these things with actual PROOF and repeatable experiments to back those claims.
toodamnhip wrote:There's a certain quantum physics experiment that scientifically proves the observer influences sub atomic particles. You can look it up on you tube I am sure.
I am more than familiar with that old experiment (from better sources than YouTube, BTW). But what seems to influence the particles is not observation per se, but the way they are MEASURED.
I have a feeling that the physical realm would be necessary to convince you of the spiritual realm.
There's no such thing as a spiritual realm...
Have you seen it? Have you observed it? Can it make any useful predictions? Spiritual beliefs and science can not be put together in the same sentence if one wants to make any sense.
The former is the way some people chose to ignore reality hidden in an unproved "belief system", the latter is made out of observations of how nature works, repeatable truths/experiments and things that can give useful predictions.
toodamnhip wrote:I do not say this to make you wrong. It is just clear that you depend on the phyisical universe for your insights, which I totally understands..most do so.
Yes I do. I depend and believe in science because those are proven concepts NOT based on beliefs.
I could believe in Unicorns, but that won't make them real (unless, of course, we are talking about THE unicorn we al love around here) :unicorn:
toodamnhip wrote:But you are welcome to continue to think of yourself as inconsequential and without influence. But check out the Quntum physics experiment..
Like I said, I'm more than familiar with that experiment. It's not just mere observation (as in looking at the particles) that makes them change. The change is caused by the unintended interaction that measurement produces.

If I chose to realize (based on Cosmology) this planet, and life as we know it, are inconsequential, it's because we are really nothing when compared to the greatness of the universe. If all Galaxies and ALL mater that exist put together add up to no more than 8-6% of the stuff of the universe, and we already look ridiculously small compared to even our own galaxy (and there are trillions of them), what do we look like against the rest of the universe? Not even a grain of sand. Much less than that... that's why I said inconsequential. We could disappear planet earth and the whole solar system and nothing would happen, none would even notice it.

One can always feel bigger or more grandiose than anything else, but that does not change reality, and only works in their minds as consolation.
It's pretty scary, I give you that. But inventing ways of feeling more important than we really are is a human way of dealing with fear of the known and unknown ( one reason why some people are superstitious)
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Re: TEST: 5 DAWs 5 MBP Optical O/P You better read this :)

Post by Killahurts »

Sorry to be a party pooper, but.. a bunch of Swedish guys said DP sounded better than some other DAWs. It's still a big deal to me. I think esoteric conversations about existence and spirituality and whatnot are great, and I'd like to engage with you on another thread, but here I think it's important that we remain focused, because there might be others looking on. :wink:
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Re: TEST: 5 DAWs 5 MBP Optical O/P You better read this :)

Post by toodamnhip »

Killahurts wrote:Sorry to be a party pooper, but.. a bunch of Swedish guys said DP sounded better than some other DAWs. It's still a big deal to me. I think esoteric conversations about existence and spirituality and whatnot are great, and I'd like to engage with you on another thread, but here I think it's important that we remain focused, because there might be others looking on. :wink:
It's ok, the party pooped out long ago...lol...
I have said my piece.
It is indeed cool that DP won.
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Re: TEST: 5 DAWs 5 MBP Optical O/P You better read this :)

Post by FMiguelez »

Killahurts wrote:Sorry to be a party pooper, but.. a bunch of Swedish guys said DP sounded better than some other DAWs. It's still a big deal to me. I think esoteric conversations about existence and spirituality and whatnot are great, and I'd like to engage with you on another thread, but here I think it's important that we remain focused, because there might be others looking on. :wink:
You are right. I got carried away :oops:

I just thought after 10+ pages everybody said what they needed to say regarding that, and positions were clearly laid out. Sorry I contributed to the BIG OT detour.

The facts that remain are: DP WON that blind test (by far), and Unicorns are awesome! The rest is just noise :)

:unicorn:
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Re: TEST: 5 DAWs 5 MBP Optical O/P You better read this :)

Post by Shooshie »

Just to add to the discussion about the speed of light and relativity, here's the latest volley in that developing story, or battle, as it may become:

Lightspeed Still Obeys Limit; Relativity Safe for Now

Since there is a passionate discussion in progress about this, I figured you'd want to know.

And to toodamnhip, it's only natural to feel that every being is important and unique. It's the only way we can stay sane and continue doing what we do. To become too aware that there are 7 billion others just like us, each capable of replacing us, all with the same capabilities, emotions, and values, is to be reduced to the role of ants in a hill, bees in a hive, and to devolve into a "what's the use" depression. One has to pursue what is important to one's self, follow the dream however ridiculous it may seem or others may portray it, in order to find the thing which distinguishes each of us from the ocean of humanity that is crushing the infrastructure of the planet. Thus we each do what makes us amazing and different, and through the validation it gives us, we then love those around us, validating them too. Otherwise we just do what we're told, becoming one of the replaceable seven billion.

In our case, most of us are doing "that thing we do" when we use Digital Performer. That makes it a big deal when others in the community validate us by selecting DP as the DAW with the sound they prefer in a double-blind test. On the other hand, one has to wonder why any of the DAWs sounded different at all. Apparently, the art of digital audio manipulation is not as clear-cut a science as we'd like to believe.

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Re: TEST: 5 DAWs 5 MBP Optical O/P You better read this :)

Post by toodamnhip »

Shooshie wrote:Just to add to the discussion about the speed of light and relativity, here's the latest volley in that developing story, or battle, as it may become:

Lightspeed Still Obeys Limit; Relativity Safe for Now

Since there is a passionate discussion in progress about this, I figured you'd want to know.

And to toodamnhip, it's only natural to feel that every being is important and unique. It's the only way we can stay sane and continue doing what we do. To become too aware that there are 7 billion others just like us, each capable of replacing us, all with the same capabilities, emotions, and values, is to be reduced to the role of ants in a hill, bees in a hive, and to devolve into a "what's the use" depression. One has to pursue what is important to one's self, follow the dream however ridiculous it may seem or others may portray it, in order to find the thing which distinguishes each of us from the ocean of humanity that is crushing the infrastructure of the planet. Thus we each do what makes us amazing and different, and through the validation it gives us, we then love those around us, validating them too. Otherwise we just do what we're told, becoming one of the replaceable seven billion.

In our case, most of us are doing "that thing we do" when we use Digital Performer. That makes it a big deal when others in the community validate us by selecting DP as the DAW with the sound they prefer in a double-blind test. On the other hand, one has to wonder why any of the DAWs sounded different at all. Apparently, the art of digital audio manipulation is not as clear-cut a science as we'd like to believe.

Shooshie
I understand.
Too clarify, I am not trying to even say we are all important.
My argument is to those who think we are just dirt, matter.
The truth is, an awareness unit we call a person, is so powerful that, if they say they are nothing, they become nothing.
So, to those that say they are inconsequential, guess what?.......
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Re: TEST: 5 DAWs 5 MBP Optical O/P You better read this :)

Post by Shooshie »


Incidentally, one might do well not to consider the above article as proof positive that the CERN measurements are incorrect, or that neutrinos do not travel faster than light. It could just as easily prove that neutrinos are merely comfortable traveling faster than light. It just shows that they did not lose the predicted amount of energy for such a particle moving at such a speed.

If the OPERA (at CERN) measurements are correct, and neutrinos travel faster than light, then they have entered a state in which the trusty observations predicted by Relativity simply break down and become less useful at predicting outcomes. We already know of such realms: the quantum realm, for example, where things seem to operate on some basis of pure, timeless, dimensionless math incorporating statistical odds, rather than the math of open space and time where Relativity shines. Then there is the Bell theorem, whereby it is shown that paired photons communicate with each other instantly, with no elapsed time, no matter how far apart they may be, or as Einstein called it, "spooky action at a distance." There again, Relativity doesn't give us the tools to predict such behavior. Perhaps the pursuit of neutrinos has led us into another such realm, where maybe we will eventually reconcile the mysteriously missing dark matter with that which we can see. Or something even more bizarre. (or less)

The point is that if neutrinos ARE traveling faster than light, and are violating Relativistic predictions, then it probably makes little sense to expect to refute that fact with other Relativistic measurements. If they've violated one law of Relativity, they've probably violated others. To expect them to lose energy when moving that speed is to assume that they don't like breaking the speed limit. ie: If they break the speed limit, they would lose too much energy. If they lost that much energy, they couldn't break that speed limit. In other words, the Italians are trying to disprove the Swiss by means of a tautology. If it turns out that the Italians are right, then it's more than a tautology; it's the law. But if it turns out that the Swiss are right, then it's another example of our growing knowledge rendering formerly inviolable laws into merely "workable solutions for some cases," just as Relativity did to Newton's Laws, which did same to Ptolemaic laws, and so forth. Thus, if neutrinos can break the speed limit, they do it with no sweat, no loss of energy, and there's obviously something wrong with our old observations.

This experiment is just beginning. The outcome could be huge, and it's going to be much fun to see what happens. If I were a String Theorist, I'd be preparing my résumé, for this could be the speed bump that derails that observationless, predictionless theory. (Or perhaps it's just the proof and validation they've been waiting for?)

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Re: TEST: 5 DAWs 5 MBP Optical O/P You better read this :)

Post by FMiguelez »

toodamnhip wrote: The truth is, an awareness unit we call a person, is so powerful that, if they say they are nothing, they become nothing.
So, to those that say they are inconsequential, guess what?.......
Hmmm... interesting comment from someone who talks about "spirituality".

Also, that was a textbook strawman argument.

Whose truth, anyway?
Can you prove what you just wrote?
Or is that what you just really want (or need) to believe?

Also, just to be clear, you obviously didn't get my argument (your conclusion seems weird... is that how you understood what I said?). You are taking it out of context. Putting it back in context, what I said is IN THE GRAND SCHEME OF THINGS (the whole universe), we are of no consequence.
I'm talking about this from a cosmological POV, not from a man-made effort to try to make sense out of his existence (no need for strawmen either).

People (in general, not necessarily aimed at you) may have grandeur delusions, but in reality, that only happens inside their minds. The universe will just keep expanding, even if it scares them...
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Re: TEST: 5 DAWs 5 MBP Optical O/P You better read this :)

Post by toodamnhip »

FMiguelez wrote:
toodamnhip wrote: The truth is, an awareness unit we call a person, is so powerful that, if they say they are nothing, they become nothing.
So, to those that say they are inconsequential, guess what?.......
Hmmm... interesting comment from someone who talks about "spirituality".

Also, that was a textbook strawman argument.

Whose truth, anyway?
Can you prove what you just wrote?
Or is that what you just really want (or need) to believe?

Also, just to be clear, you obviously didn't get my argument (your conclusion seems weird... is that how you understood what I said?). You are taking it out of context. Putting it back in context, what I said is IN THE GRAND SCHEME OF THINGS (the whole universe), we are of no consequence.
I'm talking about this from a cosmological POV, not from a man-made effort to try to make sense out of his existence (no need for strawmen either).

People (in general, not necessarily aimed at you) may have grandeur delusions, but in reality, that only happens inside their minds. The universe will just keep expanding, even if it scares them...
Out of respect for James,....

I say....
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Re: TEST: 5 DAWs 5 MBP Optical O/P You better read this :)

Post by bayswater »

I'm sorry I mentioned it now.
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Re: TEST: 5 DAWs 5 MBP Optical O/P You better read this :)

Post by toodamnhip »

bayswater wrote:I'm sorry I mentioned it now.
Awww..
Don't be that way man..it's fine that you mentioned it....

No way you could have known what the conversation would turn to. :D
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Re: TEST: 5 DAWs 5 MBP Optical O/P You better read this :)

Post by Radiogal »

With all respect for all of you guys. This topic is to damn hot but unfortunately to damn of topic.. Please :?
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