Dandy little keyboard w/MIDI controllers
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- Shooshie
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Dandy little keyboard w/MIDI controllers
I recently picked up a Behringer UMA25S controller for someone who needs MIDI controllers, but whose keyboard has none. In searching for the right device, it had to meet some stringent requirements:
1) Low profile -- it is to sit atop her regular keyboard, and must not block her view or be hard to reach.
2) Small footprint -- same as above
3) Must have wheels for Mod and Pitch Bend
4) Must have port for expression pedal
5) Must have port for sustain pedal that can be programmed easily for other switch controllers
6) Must have a number of easily programmable continuous controllers
7) USB connection preferable, but also should have MIDI ports
8 ) USB power, or battery or AC adapter
I think that narrowed it down pretty much to one or two devices, which were decided by:
9) price
The Behringer UMA25S is about $152 at Amazon. For that price you get 12 continuous controllers (including the expression pedal port), all of which are programmable for whatever you want it to send. The programming is easy -- takes a few easily remembered button/keyboard taps. You can set up presets of programmed controllers, so that you can have sets for different purposes, easily recalled with a single control.
The knobs are smooth and easy to turn with the side of your finger for realistic control in real time of things like expression or breath control, pitch bend, timbre changes, tempo, panning, volume automation, or whatever. You won't find a device with this many programmable features at this quality level for this price. At least, not with the particular requirements in my list. In addition to the continuous controllers, it has 8 MIDI machine control buttons for things like play, stop, rewind, etc. (these are also programmable for any MIDI parameter) Even the keys can send MIDI controllers. Once you've set a couple dozen controllers in knobs, buttons, and keys, you'll want to save them all in a preset so you don't have to do that again. You get 16 presets to save them to.
It also comes with some cheesy DJ attachments: headset with mic, neckstrap, gig bag, and audio in/out ports. The inputs and outputs have level controls, so it's well-thought-out, but those were not selling features for me.
With VI's requiring so many continuous controllers for vibrato depth, vibrato speed, expression, mutes, and other controls, you just can't get enough continuous controllers these days. This is a definite plus for your system. It connects and receives power through a simple USB port, thus there is only one cable required. Audio/MIDI Setup recognizes it immediately, and you're in business. I tried it out using DP and MIDI Monitor, so I know it does what it says it does. Plus, it's easy to program and quite small. (2.2" tall at it's highest point, 17.5" wide, and 7.5" deep)
Everything has multiple functions, including the keyboard, but it's all easily switched. They did a good job on this. I'd heard bad things about Behringer, and hesitated to buy it, but it was exactly what I wanted on paper. I figured it had to be worth looking at. After trying it, I'm impressed. It's not a keyboard for performing music, though you could belt out a guitar solo or bass line or some simple chord part, as long as you don't need more than 2 octaves to do so. (25 keys, plus octave buttons) The keyboard is a "half-action" keyboard, which feels a little weird, but it does have programmable velocity curves. Not complex ones, but at least it gives you some options. The device can send aftertouch, but not through the keys. It would have to be programmed for one of the continuous controllers.
The keys, on the other hand, can be programmed for specific MIDI messages, so that you may have -- for example -- several drums normally octaves apart playing on adjacent keys for an easy reach between them. Lots of applications possible if you need them.
Anyway, if you've been fretting over not having enough MIDI controllers on your keyboard, this might be the answer you've been looking for. I repeat: it's not a stand-alone all purpose keyboard. It's to augment your fine 88-key Fatar or other weighted keyboard that may not have all the bells and whistles you need. This little doodad is strictly bells and whistles. But it dings and toots quite well.
Shooshie
1) Low profile -- it is to sit atop her regular keyboard, and must not block her view or be hard to reach.
2) Small footprint -- same as above
3) Must have wheels for Mod and Pitch Bend
4) Must have port for expression pedal
5) Must have port for sustain pedal that can be programmed easily for other switch controllers
6) Must have a number of easily programmable continuous controllers
7) USB connection preferable, but also should have MIDI ports
8 ) USB power, or battery or AC adapter
I think that narrowed it down pretty much to one or two devices, which were decided by:
9) price
The Behringer UMA25S is about $152 at Amazon. For that price you get 12 continuous controllers (including the expression pedal port), all of which are programmable for whatever you want it to send. The programming is easy -- takes a few easily remembered button/keyboard taps. You can set up presets of programmed controllers, so that you can have sets for different purposes, easily recalled with a single control.
The knobs are smooth and easy to turn with the side of your finger for realistic control in real time of things like expression or breath control, pitch bend, timbre changes, tempo, panning, volume automation, or whatever. You won't find a device with this many programmable features at this quality level for this price. At least, not with the particular requirements in my list. In addition to the continuous controllers, it has 8 MIDI machine control buttons for things like play, stop, rewind, etc. (these are also programmable for any MIDI parameter) Even the keys can send MIDI controllers. Once you've set a couple dozen controllers in knobs, buttons, and keys, you'll want to save them all in a preset so you don't have to do that again. You get 16 presets to save them to.
It also comes with some cheesy DJ attachments: headset with mic, neckstrap, gig bag, and audio in/out ports. The inputs and outputs have level controls, so it's well-thought-out, but those were not selling features for me.
With VI's requiring so many continuous controllers for vibrato depth, vibrato speed, expression, mutes, and other controls, you just can't get enough continuous controllers these days. This is a definite plus for your system. It connects and receives power through a simple USB port, thus there is only one cable required. Audio/MIDI Setup recognizes it immediately, and you're in business. I tried it out using DP and MIDI Monitor, so I know it does what it says it does. Plus, it's easy to program and quite small. (2.2" tall at it's highest point, 17.5" wide, and 7.5" deep)
Everything has multiple functions, including the keyboard, but it's all easily switched. They did a good job on this. I'd heard bad things about Behringer, and hesitated to buy it, but it was exactly what I wanted on paper. I figured it had to be worth looking at. After trying it, I'm impressed. It's not a keyboard for performing music, though you could belt out a guitar solo or bass line or some simple chord part, as long as you don't need more than 2 octaves to do so. (25 keys, plus octave buttons) The keyboard is a "half-action" keyboard, which feels a little weird, but it does have programmable velocity curves. Not complex ones, but at least it gives you some options. The device can send aftertouch, but not through the keys. It would have to be programmed for one of the continuous controllers.
The keys, on the other hand, can be programmed for specific MIDI messages, so that you may have -- for example -- several drums normally octaves apart playing on adjacent keys for an easy reach between them. Lots of applications possible if you need them.
Anyway, if you've been fretting over not having enough MIDI controllers on your keyboard, this might be the answer you've been looking for. I repeat: it's not a stand-alone all purpose keyboard. It's to augment your fine 88-key Fatar or other weighted keyboard that may not have all the bells and whistles you need. This little doodad is strictly bells and whistles. But it dings and toots quite well.
Shooshie
|l| OS X 10.12.6 |l| DP 10.0 |l| 2.4 GHz 12-Core MacPro Mid-2012 |l| 40GB RAM |l| Mach5.3 |l| Waves 9.x |l| Altiverb |l| Ivory 2 New York Steinway |l| Wallander WIVI 2.30 Winds, Brass, Saxes |l| Garritan Aria |l| VSL 5.3.1 and VSL Pro 2.3.1 |l| Yamaha WX-5 MIDI Wind Controller |l| Roland FC-300 |l|
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Re: Dandy little keyboard w/MIDI controllers
Thanks for kicking the tires Shooshie. I've been thinkin of getting rid of my Studio 90 for that reason of lack of controls. Good leg work and welcome back to Dallas!
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- Shooshie
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Re: Dandy little keyboard w/MIDI controllers
Thanks, Screamin'. It's good to be home. That was quite a time to be in NY.
By the way, can anyone tell me why Behringer is often considered "low quality?" Their stuff seems to be well-made, well-designed, and quite nicely priced. They make all their components, where other manufacturers typically buy theirs and just assemble them. Behringer built a factory in China that houses over 3000 workers. That's a lot of hands making a lot of gear. Maybe it falls apart in a few months. I don't know. This is the first Behringer gear I've used. Well, all I can say is that I like it for what it is. It's not trying to be a Kurzweil. It's trying to be a MIDI/Audio interface with lots of controllers, and at that it succeeds.
Is most of their gear below par or something? I'm just trying to determine how and where the bad reputation got its start, and whether it's an earned one or just "new kid on the block" syndrome.
Shoosh
By the way, can anyone tell me why Behringer is often considered "low quality?" Their stuff seems to be well-made, well-designed, and quite nicely priced. They make all their components, where other manufacturers typically buy theirs and just assemble them. Behringer built a factory in China that houses over 3000 workers. That's a lot of hands making a lot of gear. Maybe it falls apart in a few months. I don't know. This is the first Behringer gear I've used. Well, all I can say is that I like it for what it is. It's not trying to be a Kurzweil. It's trying to be a MIDI/Audio interface with lots of controllers, and at that it succeeds.
Is most of their gear below par or something? I'm just trying to determine how and where the bad reputation got its start, and whether it's an earned one or just "new kid on the block" syndrome.
Shoosh
|l| OS X 10.12.6 |l| DP 10.0 |l| 2.4 GHz 12-Core MacPro Mid-2012 |l| 40GB RAM |l| Mach5.3 |l| Waves 9.x |l| Altiverb |l| Ivory 2 New York Steinway |l| Wallander WIVI 2.30 Winds, Brass, Saxes |l| Garritan Aria |l| VSL 5.3.1 and VSL Pro 2.3.1 |l| Yamaha WX-5 MIDI Wind Controller |l| Roland FC-300 |l|
- mhschmieder
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Re: Dandy little keyboard w/MIDI controllers
Shooshie, I think the lack of response on the other post after you made the purchase announcement has to do with the EXTREMELY strong feelings many of us have (especially those of us who work in the audio business) about that company's business practices.
I'm glad the board is working out for you, though. And it is true that they have a few products that rise above the norm and even exhibit some originality of design. It definitely is not true (across the board, at least) that build quality is guaranteed to be a problem. Certainly I have seen statistical reports indicating a strong trend towards reliability in the past few years.
BTW, this is not meant to chastise you for buying the board; it just explains why some of us are uncomfortable talking about it. Few decisions in life are clearcut. I certainly don't judge other people for not being vegans.
I'm glad the board is working out for you, though. And it is true that they have a few products that rise above the norm and even exhibit some originality of design. It definitely is not true (across the board, at least) that build quality is guaranteed to be a problem. Certainly I have seen statistical reports indicating a strong trend towards reliability in the past few years.
BTW, this is not meant to chastise you for buying the board; it just explains why some of us are uncomfortable talking about it. Few decisions in life are clearcut. I certainly don't judge other people for not being vegans.
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- Shooshie
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Re: Dandy little keyboard w/MIDI controllers
Would you be comfortable describing any of those business practices? I do not want to support a company that isn't honorable.
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- mhschmieder
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Re: Dandy little keyboard w/MIDI controllers
We can do it off-line, as I feel it would be inappropriate to potentially harm the forum (though we certainly haven't held back when discussing Gibson ).
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Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35
Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, Johhny Marr Jaguar, 57 LP, Danelectro 12
Eastman T486RB, T64/V, Ibanez PM2, D'angelico Deluxe SS Bari, EXL1
Guild Bari, 1512 12-string, M20, Martin OM28VTS, Larivee 0040MH
RME Babyface Pro FS, Radial JDV Mk5, Hammond XK-4, Moog Voyager
Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35
Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, Johhny Marr Jaguar, 57 LP, Danelectro 12
Eastman T486RB, T64/V, Ibanez PM2, D'angelico Deluxe SS Bari, EXL1
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- mhschmieder
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Re: Dandy little keyboard w/MIDI controllers
PM sent. I leave it up to Shooshie's ever-trustworthy judgment to decide whether to paraphrase any of it here.
iMac 27" 2017 Quad-Core Intel i5 (3.8 GHz, 64 GB), OSX 13.6.1, MOTU DP 11.31, iZotope RX 10
RME Babyface Pro FS, Radial JDV Mk5, Hammond XK-4, Moog Voyager
Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35
Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, Johhny Marr Jaguar, 57 LP, Danelectro 12
Eastman T486RB, T64/V, Ibanez PM2, D'angelico Deluxe SS Bari, EXL1
Guild Bari, 1512 12-string, M20, Martin OM28VTS, Larivee 0040MH
RME Babyface Pro FS, Radial JDV Mk5, Hammond XK-4, Moog Voyager
Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35
Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, Johhny Marr Jaguar, 57 LP, Danelectro 12
Eastman T486RB, T64/V, Ibanez PM2, D'angelico Deluxe SS Bari, EXL1
Guild Bari, 1512 12-string, M20, Martin OM28VTS, Larivee 0040MH
Re: Dandy little keyboard w/MIDI controllers
Korg micro sampler also.
scoots
scoots
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- toodamnhip
- Posts: 3840
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Re: Dandy little keyboard w/MIDI controllers
Behringer has a bad rep because they started their company by supposedly stealing everything they manufactured.Shooshie wrote:Thanks, Screamin'. It's good to be home. That was quite a time to be in NY.
By the way, can anyone tell me why Behringer is often considered "low quality?" Their stuff seems to be well-made, well-designed, and quite nicely priced. They make all their components, where other manufacturers typically buy theirs and just assemble them. Behringer built a factory in China that houses over 3000 workers. That's a lot of hands making a lot of gear. Maybe it falls apart in a few months. I don't know. This is the first Behringer gear I've used. Well, all I can say is that I like it for what it is. It's not trying to be a Kurzweil. It's trying to be a MIDI/Audio interface with lots of controllers, and at that it succeeds.
Is most of their gear below par or something? I'm just trying to determine how and where the bad reputation got its start, and whether it's an earned one or just "new kid on the block" syndrome.
Shoosh
They were involved in a variety of law suits for patent infringement and got a reputation as being under handed thieves.
It is my guess that that history still follows them to this day, and that now that they are big enough to have their own R & D, they'd like the world to forget about just exactly HOW they got to be a such famous company.
Of course, as per the law, any company so accused is innocent until proven guilty. And, I don;t have the time to go research whether anyone actually won any law suits.
So have your own opinion on the company based off of your own research into their past.
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- Shooshie
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Re: Dandy little keyboard w/MIDI controllers
I see (said the blind guy). I never realized what the deal was with Behringer. I guess if he'd copied my hardware and sold it for half its price, I'd be a little P.O.'d myself.
Still, that leaves me in a dilemma. I searched everything I could find in this particular type of product line. I ordered three things and cancelled them, each time because they really did not fill the exact needs. In each case I'd have had to order yet another piece of gear to fill out the requirements. (Usually the shortcoming was an expression pedal port, but sometimes it was lack of pitch bend and mod wheels.)
Then there were the size and price requirements. I'm helping someone who has just had a huge cash outlay and must count pennies for a month or two. I felt that I had to keep the price under $200. Then there was the size issue, where anything over a certain size was going to crowd her tiny composition studio space. It had to fit where we wanted it to fit, or it wouldn't work. Even an inch difference would be too much.
The Behringer is the ONLY one of all the things on the market that fit all the requirements. In fact, I'm not sure that there was another at any price that did this. It was made to order for this situation.
In this case, I've got to go with the Behringer, regardless of their sordid past. It's a matter of something or nothing. This discussion, however, brings up a lot of things that bother me, but I'll save those for another day.
Shooshie
Still, that leaves me in a dilemma. I searched everything I could find in this particular type of product line. I ordered three things and cancelled them, each time because they really did not fill the exact needs. In each case I'd have had to order yet another piece of gear to fill out the requirements. (Usually the shortcoming was an expression pedal port, but sometimes it was lack of pitch bend and mod wheels.)
Then there were the size and price requirements. I'm helping someone who has just had a huge cash outlay and must count pennies for a month or two. I felt that I had to keep the price under $200. Then there was the size issue, where anything over a certain size was going to crowd her tiny composition studio space. It had to fit where we wanted it to fit, or it wouldn't work. Even an inch difference would be too much.
The Behringer is the ONLY one of all the things on the market that fit all the requirements. In fact, I'm not sure that there was another at any price that did this. It was made to order for this situation.
In this case, I've got to go with the Behringer, regardless of their sordid past. It's a matter of something or nothing. This discussion, however, brings up a lot of things that bother me, but I'll save those for another day.
Shooshie
|l| OS X 10.12.6 |l| DP 10.0 |l| 2.4 GHz 12-Core MacPro Mid-2012 |l| 40GB RAM |l| Mach5.3 |l| Waves 9.x |l| Altiverb |l| Ivory 2 New York Steinway |l| Wallander WIVI 2.30 Winds, Brass, Saxes |l| Garritan Aria |l| VSL 5.3.1 and VSL Pro 2.3.1 |l| Yamaha WX-5 MIDI Wind Controller |l| Roland FC-300 |l|
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Re: Dandy little keyboard w/MIDI controllers
as "TooDamn" said, it probably goes back to the "Behri-Mackie" that had the look and feel of a 1604, but none of the quality & durability. but having said, they (Behringer) have subsequently produced a ton of "does-the-job-at-a-very-good-price" products. I've got 3-4 in my studio - things like Monitor-select boxes - that I really love. So if I were you, I'd go ahead and give them a try, remembering that their products usually *will* do the job, but sometimes - - just "Behr"-lyShooshie wrote:I never realized what the deal was with Behringer. I guess if he'd copied my hardware and sold it for half its price, I'd be a little P.O.'d myself.
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- HCMarkus
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Re: Dandy little keyboard w/MIDI controllers
If anyone recalls the early Behringer ads, "From the mind of Uli Behringer" you might remember how the company emphasized the way in which its name was pronounced: BehRINGER, hence the little bell in its logo. I always wondered if the name was calculated to evoke the realization that Behringer's products looked remarkably like those sold by a few noted competitors.
They have a really nice factory in China now. I have yet to buy one of their products, but must admist to having been tempted on several occasions. Of course, some of today's most respected companies have their roots in nasty competitive start up practices.... anyone remember who first developed the GUI Apple adopted for the first Mac?
They have a really nice factory in China now. I have yet to buy one of their products, but must admist to having been tempted on several occasions. Of course, some of today's most respected companies have their roots in nasty competitive start up practices.... anyone remember who first developed the GUI Apple adopted for the first Mac?
- Shooshie
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Re: Dandy little keyboard w/MIDI controllers
HCMarkus wrote: anyone remember who first developed the GUI Apple adopted for the first Mac?
With all due respect for Xerox PARC, they did actually give Steve Jobs and his crew access to their interface project, though it was not completed. It was going nowhere, the managers knew that and knew it was too good to let it die, and they were willing to let it slip through their fingers rather than see it come to nothing. Jobs and crew did a far better job of it, a much more useful design, and made it practical for small personal computers. It's an urban myth that Steve just stole it from Xerox PARC. From what I'm gathering about Behringer, the two stories bear no similarities. It appears that Uli Behringer's early definition of "engineering" meant popping the back off a piece of gear, then writing down the names of all the components and how they were soldered together. Steve Jobs' engineers were allowed to ask detailed questions, take notes, and try things out for a limited period of time. There was an agreement with the people at PARC in exchange for shares of Apple stock. I think PARC later regretted it, but subsequent interviews gave the clear impression that the men upstairs at Xerox were not interested in it, as they figured it might cut into their copier business. "Paperless Office" was not something to which Xerox aspired.
|l| OS X 10.12.6 |l| DP 10.0 |l| 2.4 GHz 12-Core MacPro Mid-2012 |l| 40GB RAM |l| Mach5.3 |l| Waves 9.x |l| Altiverb |l| Ivory 2 New York Steinway |l| Wallander WIVI 2.30 Winds, Brass, Saxes |l| Garritan Aria |l| VSL 5.3.1 and VSL Pro 2.3.1 |l| Yamaha WX-5 MIDI Wind Controller |l| Roland FC-300 |l|
- HCMarkus
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Re: Dandy little keyboard w/MIDI controllers
"Paperless Office" was not something to which Xerox aspired."
Touché Shooshie!
Touché Shooshie!
- mhschmieder
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Re: Dandy little keyboard w/MIDI controllers
I don't want to get this too O.T., but I have a fair amount of experience with the history behind pointing devices, windowing systems, and also Xerox PARC as an institution and what its role was in the industry. Apple did not "steal" from Xerox PARC. I don't have the energy or inclination to go into more detail at the moment. The industry looked at Xerox as free R&D.
iMac 27" 2017 Quad-Core Intel i5 (3.8 GHz, 64 GB), OSX 13.6.1, MOTU DP 11.31, iZotope RX 10
RME Babyface Pro FS, Radial JDV Mk5, Hammond XK-4, Moog Voyager
Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35
Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, Johhny Marr Jaguar, 57 LP, Danelectro 12
Eastman T486RB, T64/V, Ibanez PM2, D'angelico Deluxe SS Bari, EXL1
Guild Bari, 1512 12-string, M20, Martin OM28VTS, Larivee 0040MH
RME Babyface Pro FS, Radial JDV Mk5, Hammond XK-4, Moog Voyager
Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35
Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, Johhny Marr Jaguar, 57 LP, Danelectro 12
Eastman T486RB, T64/V, Ibanez PM2, D'angelico Deluxe SS Bari, EXL1
Guild Bari, 1512 12-string, M20, Martin OM28VTS, Larivee 0040MH