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New intelligent notation software

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New intelligent notation software

Postby Anders Peev » Tue May 10, 2011 3:12 am

My old professor from the Royal academy is releasing a notation software that can hear key, meter, pickup, tempo - everything, without using a clicktrack. It might not sound very revolutionary but it actually is. This guy has been researching about this for 20 years. The intelligent music-guessing -engine makes it's very qualified guessing from the minds of hundreds of music students though little tests and surveys that he gave us during our education. Almost all of the students at the folk music department at the Royal academy of music in Stockholm has been taking these tests and and then he sqeezed all of the results into the guessing-engine. It's not just guessing 3/4 and 4/4 and the likes. If you play something on the keyboard in 13/16 (even in a sloppy way without clicktrack) it will understand it too, and immediately create a readable note sheet fore you in the right key and all.

Right now I think it is MIDI input only but it will be audio too he told me last time I spoke to him a year ago or so.

http://doremir.com/DoReMIR_Music_Research/ScoreCleaner.html

The video is in swedish unfortunately but you'll get the hang of it. The only problem is, who needs this software? Teachers? I can't see an obvious use for it myself really.


/Anders

PS. I hope you're not thinking that I'm trying to promote this on the forum, I am not involved in this company or the project (other than being part of some of my professors tests 10 years ago) In case you do feel that way I apologize.
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http://www.nanoqrecordings.com
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Re: New intelligent notation software

Postby FMiguelez » Tue May 10, 2011 7:57 am

.

Looks interesting. One can sort of follow the video, but there's a huge language barrier. My Sanskrit is better than my Swedish :)

What will this professor intend to do with his engine?

Sorry for this OT, but, Anders, what's that instrument you are holding in your avatar?
Is that a Folk Swedish instrument? What does it sound like? Do you play it well? Where could I hear something featuring it?

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Re: New intelligent notation software

Postby Anders Peev » Tue May 10, 2011 9:58 am

Hi FM!

I play the swedish folk instrument nyckelharpa, I am one of few educated professionals. There are many diffrent kinds of nyckelharpas though, with very different sounds. Here's a clip with the very modern one on the avatar:

Solo:
http://www.nanoqrecordings.se/Nanoq_recordings/gangar.html

Video with me in a pop band:
http://www.youtube.com/user/anderspeev#p/a/f/2/ixYcnimo318


Video, oldstyle:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHx1yJO7TN8


Anders Peev wrote:One can sort of follow the video, but there's a huge language barrier. My Sanskrit is better than my Swedish
Ha ha!! :D

What he's doing is recording a simple arrangement with a MIDI keyboard, then he double clicks on the recorded MIDI notes, the software thinks for a moment and creates an exact fully readable note sheet of the recording. Any similar engine in DP, Finale or Sibelius would need a click and a very accurate performance to do this. No matter how sloppy a pianist you are this software will produce an accurate note sheet, according to Sven (the professor).

I will find out my old professors intentions soon, I'm invited to the release party for the software next week. His main thing has been his research about how humans perceive music. He made us students listen to very undynamic melodic phrases and asked us to point out the root notes, beats, pick up notes, barlines and so on. Those tests are what the engine's been based upon.

It would be rather cool though, to just record your voice and get the melody down on a note sheet immediately. Like instant notes from direct from an audio source. I will come home with a copy and test it myself and give you a full report.

Anders
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Re: New intelligent notation software

Postby FMiguelez » Tue May 10, 2011 11:06 am

.

Anders!
THANK YOU for sharing that, man! What a BEAUTIFUL instrument!

I liked all your links, but the last one (with the violinist) sounds more like what I imagined in terms of style, but it sounds awesome in all the contexts you provided.
The video with your band is so nice too! And you obviously invested a lot on its production. It worked. It's very nice!

So, based on what I just saw, the Nyckelharpa is almost a cross between a viola and an accordion, right? I was so surprised when I saw your left hand pressing those keys (as opposed to fingering in the board). The sound is full and beautiful, and I was immediately taken to another time...

So do you always bow it? Can it also be plucked?

I can't wait to show this to my girlfriend. She LOVES the kind of bands like yours.

It will be interesting reading about your report about your old professor's app. I'm looking forward to read your review.

Man, if I still remembered the lyrics to that Norwegian drinking song I and my Norwegian buddies used to get wasted to, I'd sing it right now (I understand Swedish and Norwegian are similar, like Portuguese and Spanish).

On a different note, with all due respect, the violinist is VERY cute! Too bad I'm taken :D
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Re: New intelligent notation software

Postby cbergm7210 » Tue May 10, 2011 11:16 am

I have to say, as one who's done my share of scores, that is pretty nifty.

8)
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Re: New intelligent notation software

Postby Anders Peev » Tue May 10, 2011 12:25 pm

Thanks for the compliments!!

The nyckelharpa derives from the medieval european fiddles that originally came with the arabic tribes (the moors) when they conquered nowadays france, italy and spain in the 8th century (if i got the period right). Then someone put keys from medieval wooden locks on the fiddle, probably in order to make the quality of the tone a bit sharper in the higher frequencies , compared to e.g a violin where the fingers softens the tone a bit. A sharper tone pierces the sound of partying people on a dance floor better (my interpretation), which would be the common environment this instrument first came in use and still is.

The sympathetic strings is also an arabic invention and is still used with many different folk instruments like the norwegian harding fiddle and viola da more. Some americans and english native speaking people call it "keyed fiddle" which makes sense, nyckel- means key and -harpa is of course harp. A harp in the middle ages was slang for anything between a lute to a fiddle.

So do you always bow it? Can it also be plucked?

The modern one in the avatar can easily be plucked. The second song under the white album on the page:
http://www.nanoqrecordings.com/Nanoq_recordings_eng/Albums.html

But most models have their sympathetic strings attached in the same hight as the playing strings which makes plucking a bit harder.

Man, if I still remembered the lyrics to that Norwegian drinking song I and my Norwegian buddies used to get wasted to, I'd sing it right now (I understand Swedish and Norwegian are similar, like Portuguese and Spanish)
. A norwegian black metal hit perhaps? Black metal is huge in Norway I believe :evil: :D And yes it's quite similar to Swedish, depending on the dialect and the degree of intoxication :wink:

On a different note, with all due respect, the violinist is VERY cute! Too bad I'm taken:D
ha ha, she's taken by an alto violinist i believe :D
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Re: New intelligent notation software

Postby Anders Peev » Tue May 10, 2011 12:49 pm

cbergm7210 wrote:I have to say, as one who's done my share of scores, that is pretty nifty.

8)


It would be cool if it was part of a major notation sequencer manufacturer such as Finale or DP :D. I'm guessing professor Sven is not the guy who will have time or energy to race against Finale and Sibelius by making a competitive product.

Anders
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Re: New intelligent notation software

Postby cbergm7210 » Tue May 10, 2011 12:58 pm

Anders Peev wrote:
cbergm7210 wrote:I have to say, as one who's done my share of scores, that is pretty nifty.

8)


It would be cool if it was part of a major notation sequencer manufacturer such as Finale or DP :D. I'm guessing professor Sven is not the guy who will have time or energy to race against Finale and Sibelius by making a competitive product.

Anders


It looks like he is planning on it being to export in formats that can be then imported to any scoring program, does it not? (language barrier)
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Re: New intelligent notation software

Postby Anders Peev » Tue May 10, 2011 1:50 pm

It looks like he is planning on it being to export in formats that can be then imported to any scoring program, does it not? (language barrier)


Yes your right, he says you can save it as a MIDI file or music XML. So it will be easy to open it in any notation software.
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Re: New intelligent notation software

Postby FMiguelez » Tue May 10, 2011 3:22 pm

.

Hey, Anders, thanks so much for all that detailed info about the Nyckelharpa. I learnt something cool today! 8)

That duet folk piece (with the violin), is that a Swedish traditional song?
I love how there are some modal passages along with more traditional harmony. There are also phrases with interesting rhythms.
I really like that piece! It must have been so much fun to play it.

The first time I listened it sounded similar to those Indian and Arabic instruments, indeed, but the Nyckelharpa sounds quite unique.

You know, the other day I saw a great video with the Kronos Quartet featuring a Finish guest who played this unusual instrument. What a treat! What a bunch of virtuosos!
The duet piece reminded me of that one... especially the "traditional" passages :)

Now I want to write a piece where the Nyckelharpa would be featured as a guest instrument. I think it is just what a long abandoned piece of mine needs to come back to life.
If I ever get to it, I know just whom to call... 8)

What an interesting crowd we have here at the Nation!
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Re: New intelligent notation software

Postby Anders Peev » Tue May 10, 2011 4:28 pm

My pleasure FM!

The duet tune is my own composition made in the traditional style though. I'm very flattred that you liked it!

Now I want to write a piece where the Nyckelharpa would be featured as a guest instrument. I think it is just what a long abandoned piece of mine needs to come back to life.
If I ever get to it, I know just whom to call...


That would be cool! :D

Anders
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Re: New intelligent notation software

Postby bayswater » Tue May 10, 2011 6:14 pm

Anders, would you be able to tell me how this instrument is tuned? For example, around 2:20 in the solo piece.

Anders Peev wrote: Here's a clip with the very modern one on the avatar:
Solo:
http://www.nanoqrecordings.se/Nanoq_recordings/gangar.html
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Re: New intelligent notation software

Postby towerproductions » Tue May 10, 2011 11:13 pm

Looks like a nifty piece of software that would be great for improvising and then seeing some ideas on paper.

Cool instrument as well.

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Re: New intelligent notation software

Postby Anders Peev » Wed May 11, 2011 4:15 am

Hi friends!

I posted this little film that explains a bit more about the tunings and functions of my nyckelharpas:
http://www.nanoqrecordings.com/Nanoq_recordings_eng/Motunationharpa.html

I play a little bit on both the modern 21st century nyckelharpa and the older style, 17th century nyckelharpa.

Enjoy!

Anders
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Re: New intelligent notation software

Postby FMiguelez » Wed May 11, 2011 8:14 am

Anders Peev wrote:The duet tune is my own composition made in the traditional style though. I'm very flattred that you liked it!

Wow. I didn't know it was yours. To me it sounded like a very lively traditional folk Swedish tune. Great job, Anders! :D

I love ALL kinds of folk music. From many countries except mine... Why? Simple: Over-exposure. It sounds too familiar. Nothing new or exciting anymore. OTOH, that's precisely why I enjoy other countries' folk music so much. It usually sounds fresh and interesting to me.
I can't explain this any further without "political taints", and we all know how much James loves that. I don't want him to report me to cranky Doris down in MOTUNation accounting :lol:

Anders Peev wrote:I posted this little film that explains a bit more about the tunings and functions of my nyckelharpas:

I just finished watching. It's so nice you took the time to record that and educate us about the Nyckelharpa.

I really enjoyed the video. You know, it felt almost as if we were hanging out at your place in Sweden and you showed me your instrument in person, like I used to do with a lot of my friends' instruments at College.

I'm glad you showed how you play those drone tones, the double stops and the micro tunings. Obviously, these are integral to the sound and idiomatic playing of the instrument.

Sorry I kind of took your software OP in a totally different direction (now we have 2 topics here), but I couldn't help it. I'd split the thread into two topics if I could...

Than you for sharing all this, my friend 8)
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