Anyone using SSL Matrix with DP?

[Killahurts]

If so, what are your experiences?

I read somewhere that there were problems in the very early days with the controller aspect of the Matrix with DP. Hoping they have those ironed out by now. Apparently, it uses the Mackie Control protocol, or HUI. Should work, right?

Totally "in the box" is just not cutting it for me. The Matrix seems to be the best fit for a hybrid in my studio, though it is expensive.

I'm using the Euphonix Artists for control right now. The Eucon protocol is supposed to be superior, but I don't know about that.. sure puts the hurt on my CPU (Euphonix and MOTU are working on that though). Also, I was stoked about the MC's having 10 bit fader resolution with DP, Like I had with my old Sony console, but I don't feel like I'm getting that. Is Mackie control even worse?

[Frodo]

Without making any undo assertions, I have XLogic and the MADI card and it's working well for a variety of purposes on this end- ITB + OTB. I miss CueMix, but the unique dual path for audio has been a big improvement.

What's bringing you down, K?

[zaratero]

AFAIR MCU was 128 bits resolution.

I went mad this week with the announcement of NUCLEUS: http://www.solid-state-logic.com/news/a ... ID=309&T=M" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - 3500€
Only stereo IN/OUT from Computer, although it has more monitoring inputs, and no Surround monitoring either. There went my dream.

[Killahurts]

Without making any undo assertions, I have XLogic and the MADI card and it's working well for a variety of purposes on this end- ITB + OTB. I miss CueMix, but the unique dual path for audio has been a big improvement.

What's bringing you down, K?

Just mostly having to jump through hoops to do what having a fully integrated console made so easy..

Things one takes for granted, like the cue mix, the talkback, surround monitor control, effect sends and returns.. now I'm trying to have all that in a bunch of separate boxes and softwares.

Then there's the latency when tracking problem. For so many years I used DP basically as a tape machine with plug-ins. I never had to worry about latency (other than with virtual instruments) because I could monitor, let's say the singers mic, through the console. If she wanted some reverb, dialed her some in from the console.

Now if I want to record that singer without an annoying delay, I have to go into the Totalmix software for the RME MADI card and set up a whole configuration of direct monitoring, and I have to work that software simultaneously with DP, balancing the levels between each, etc. If she wants reverb, thats going to be hard because even though I can send out through Totalmix, the reverb out is going into DP, blah blah..

I have Blue Sky Surround monitor controller, but it has no cue/talkback functions, so I use Euphonix Studio Monitor Express software for that, so I can dim the monitors in talkback, etc- but then I have to have 2 audio drivers set up in DP, the Euphonix and the HDSP MADI, and since Euphonix is alphabetically sooner than HDSP MADI, DP loads that driver first, and thinks it needs to be the clock, so first thing I have to do every time I open a project is go correct that or it won't play. Shall I go on? I think not, you get the picture.

The one GREAT part about all this is mixing in the DP box sounds fantastic, as good or better than my old console, and I got one of those UAD Quad cards and Neve EQ's etc., so my mixes are arguably sounding better than ever.

As far as DP's part of it goes, it has had a solution for every problem I've come across with it. I never want to be without this software!

DP, the MADI card, the SSL Alphalink. The rest of this stuff has got to go. I need a board. This is too convoluted of a workflow for me to create music with.

[Killahurts]

AFAIR MCU was 128 bits resolution.

I went mad this week with the announcement of NUCLEUS: http://www.solid-state-logic.com/news/a ... ID=309&T=M" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - 3500€
Only stereo IN/OUT from Computer, although it has more monitoring inputs, and no Surround monitoring either. There went my dream.

And no talkback. I think they may regret that omission.

[zaratero]

I didn´t notice the lack of talkback.
Put a 2 IN 8 OUT interface for a 5.1 mix and a headphone send with monitor controller and built in talckback and this would fill a bigger market niche.
Matrix is out of my reach. I´d pay 5000€ for a NUCLEUS on steroids, and it would be a minor increase in price for the people I believe this is aimed to.

Sorry for hijacking the thread

[n2mpujack]

If so, what are your experiences?

I read somewhere that there were problems in the very early days with the controller aspect of the Matrix with DP. Hoping they have those ironed out by now. Apparently, it uses the Mackie Control protocol, or HUI. Should work, right?

Totally "in the box" is just not cutting it for me. The Matrix seems to be the best fit for a hybrid in my studio, though it is expensive.

I'm using the Euphonix Artists for control right now. The Eucon protocol is supposed to be superior, but I don't know about that.. sure puts the hurt on my CPU (Euphonix and MOTU are working on that though). Also, I was stoked about the MC's having 10 bit fader resolution with DP, Like I had with my old Sony console, but I don't feel like I'm getting that. Is Mackie control even worse?

The Matrix can use either HUI or MCU. I know DP is MCU compatible and I thought I read somewheres on this forum that it was also HUI - correct me if I'm wrong. There is a profile downloadable from the SSL site for DP control (along with profiles for Sonar and I think Live).

The only thing I read, and I wish I could remember where I read it online (may have even been SSL's site) was that there were some issues with DP because it allegedly didn't follow to the T the MCU specs. There was no elaboration of that though.

If you go this route for DP to get the Matrix's faders to follow automation in DP (the Matrix doesn't have automation on it's own like the Duality or AWS900) you need to create MIDI tracks with cc7 messages to feed each of the faders you want controlled in the Matrix console. So for the 16 faders you'd need 16 MIDI tracks.

[Killahurts]

If you go this route for DP to get the Matrix's faders to follow automation in DP (the Matrix doesn't have automation on it's own like the Duality or AWS900) you need to create MIDI tracks with cc7 messages to feed each of the faders you want controlled in the Matrix console. So for the 16 faders you'd need 16 MIDI tracks.

Seriously? Eh gads, what a bummer. So you get all that functionality, and the SSL sound, but you hook it up with (my opinion) antiquated technology, presumably for the life of the product. At that price, well, it's not very encouraging.

If I would just give up this surround thing, things would be a lot easier and cheaper for me, for sure.

[n2mpujack]

If you go this route for DP to get the Matrix's faders to follow automation in DP (the Matrix doesn't have automation on it's own like the Duality or AWS900) you need to create MIDI tracks with cc7 messages to feed each of the faders you want controlled in the Matrix console. So for the 16 faders you'd need 16 MIDI tracks.

Seriously? Eh gads, what a bummer. So you get all that functionality, and the SSL sound, but you hook it up with (my opinion) antiquated technology, presumably for the life of the product. At that price, well, it's not very encouraging.

If I would just give up this surround thing, things would be a lot easier and cheaper for me, for sure.

Remember that you do not hook up the Matrix via MIDI - all communication is over Ethernet. Matrix doesn't even have MIDI connectors.

[delcosmos]

If you go this route for DP to get the Matrix's faders to follow automation in DP (the Matrix doesn't have automation on it's own like the Duality or AWS900) you need to create MIDI tracks with cc7 messages to feed each of the faders you want controlled in the Matrix console. So for the 16 faders you'd need 16 MIDI tracks.

Seriously? Eh gads, what a bummer. So you get all that functionality, and the SSL sound, but you hook it up with (my opinion) antiquated technology, presumably for the life of the product. At that price, well, it's not very encouraging.

If I would just give up this surround thing, things would be a lot easier and cheaper for me, for sure.

Remember that you do not hook up the Matrix via MIDI - all communication is over Ethernet. Matrix doesn't even have MIDI connectors.

You are right, as far as I know the Matrix doesn't work with DP, because of this Ethernet thing.
I use DP with my Duality and it works perfectly, so I recommended a Matrix to a good friend (a DP user), and when it arrived, he spent days and nights trying to make it work with DP, then he got an email from SSL telling him that the MATRIX doesn't work with DP, he replied: "Hey my friend is using a Duality with DP, why I can't use my Matrix?", they replied, because the Duality comes with MIDI ins and outs and the matrix only has ethernet, so DP doesn't notice its there. UNBELIEVABLE!!

Best regards.

delcosmos,

[n2mpujack]

You are right, as far as I know the Matrix doesn't work with DP, because of this Ethernet thing.
I use DP with my Duality and it works perfectly, so I recommended a Matrix to a good friend (a DP user), and when it arrived, he spent days and nights trying to make it work with DP, then he got an email from SSL telling him that the MATRIX doesn't work with DP, he replied: "Hey my friend is using a Duality with DP, why I can't use my Matrix?", they replied, because the Duality comes with MIDI ins and outs and the matrix only has ethernet, so DP doesn't notice its there. UNBELIEVABLE!!

Best regards.

delcosmos,

When your friend tried to use the Matrix - did he use the right profile to start with? There are ones for PT (which is HUI) and others for Logic and Cubase/Nuendo (which are MCU) - those then can be modified for use with DP or any other DAW software. The original release of the software for the Matrix didn't come with a built-in profile for DP. It is available from the SSL website as a separate download. Go to this page: http://www.solid-state-logic.com/music/ ... ofiles.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And remember that there are a couple of different pieces of software to load onto the computer to be used. Also stated in the Matrix manual is that there are issues with some Ethernet routers - they don't elaborate which. The same might also go for USB hubs - remember that you need two cables to go between the computer and the Matrix. Also needed on the computer is Java.

I don't doubt that your friend had problems with the Matrix but by the same token why would SSL say it works with DP (not to mention having a profile download).

Oh yeah for those that are interested you can download the pdf manual for the Matrix at http://www.solid-state-logic.com/music/ ... tation.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; That's a nice thing with SSL - you can download manuals for any of their products (except for the new AWS924 & 948) without having to register at their site.

[Killahurts]

You are right, as far as I know the Matrix doesn't work with DP, because of this Ethernet thing. I use DP with my Duality and it works perfectly, so I recommended a Matrix to a good friend (a DP user), and when it arrived, he spent days and nights trying to make it work with DP, then he got an email from SSL telling him that the MATRIX doesn't work with DP, he replied: "Hey my friend is using a Duality with DP, why I can't use my Matrix?", they replied, because the Duality comes with MIDI ins and outs and the matrix only has ethernet, so DP doesn't notice its there. UNBELIEVABLE!!

Best regards.

delcosmos,

Ah well, this would explain why my friends at SSL didn't write me back yet- I told them I would be using it with DP exclusively.

I guess I'll just keep using what I've got until there is a better solution..

It's funny, I feel like I need a real console to be the "heart" of my studio, but it's really DP that is the heart, as evidenced by the fact that it's the one thing I'm not willing to change.

[Killahurts]

[Go to this page: http://www.solid-state-logic.com/music/ ... ofiles.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hmmm.. interesting.
Under the instructions, all I get is a single page with the layout. BUT the layout is correct for DP, has all the right terminology.

[n2mpujack]

[Go to this page: http://www.solid-state-logic.com/music/ ... ofiles.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hmmm.. interesting.
Under the instructions, all I get is a single page with the layout. BUT the layout is correct for DP, has all the right terminology.

I know - it's interesting. There's 2 files to download separately. One is a zip file containing three files (daw, flists folder and a keymaps folder) and the other, as you found out, is just the Mackie overlay. Why they have the overlay for the Mackie unit instead of an overlay that actually would go on the Matrix - I dunno And why not a little more help getting the Matrix and DP to talk to each other? I'm going to go out on a limb and think they're assuming users and don't need more help?

As to the Matrix supposedly not working with DP because of it being Ethernet and not having MIDI ports it hit me as I was doing my morning workout while the computer was doing it's weekly backups: if this was true, how come the Euphonix units work? They're Ethernet IIRC.

[Killahurts]

As to the Matrix supposedly not working with DP because of it being Ethernet and not having MIDI ports it hit me as I was doing my morning workout while the computer was doing it's weekly backups: if this was true, how come the Euphonix units work? They're Ethernet IIRC.

Yes they are, I'm using 5 of them right now. Eucon is supported by DP now, but before that it was Mackie Control, and that worked as well (was limited though, I believe). Also, I'm using VE Pro on a slave machine- it's a different animal, I know, but the point is the ethernet works just fine, with all that MIDI and audio going back and forth.

Hey Delcosmos, maybe your friend tried it in the very early days, before there was support for DP? btw, what did he end up doing?