Which controller?...

wdegillio · Post by **wdegillio** » Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:42 pm

I'd like to purchase a new keyboard controller soon. The most likely suspects are the Novation SL MkII (61 key) and the M-Audio Axiom Pro 61 key. Neither (according to their websites) seems to mention DP as being supported by their USB interface software (Automap vs. HyperControl), and I would be willing to forgo much of their control ability by running them through MIDI for the time being if I must. (I can use DP Control for now!) Which of the two seems to "get along with" DP the best? Thanks in advance!

buzzsmith · Post by **buzzsmith** » Thu Jul 29, 2010 4:21 pm

Unless they have improved the velocity outputs of the M-Audio, I'd avoid it. I have the ProKeys 88 and I am not pleased.

It is a weighted keyboard, but it's not at all expressive when playing piano and not at all useful when doing strings, etc.

Constantly going back to the sequence and altering velocities.

IMO,

Buzzy

Buzzy

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mhschmieder · Post by **mhschmieder** » Fri Jul 30, 2010 6:13 pm

Take a look at the excellent MPK series from Akai, which has semi-weighted action with some heft to it, and a full-featured controller layout. This is probably the best controller series currently on the market, for non-piano action non-88-key boards. It has been given top place by SOS, Keyboard Magazine, and Eletronic Musician, as I recall.

If you decide to move on to a larger and heavier 88-key board, you'll need to decide whether keybed action trumps size and features. It's much harder to find an 88-key board that meets all of the typical criteria of a piano-type interface for controlling synths and sample libraries. There are some good ones out there, but they're quite large and heavy, so if you want an 88-ley board, you'll need to figure out what is the maximum size that will fit in your computer desktop setup.

Akai also makes an 88-key controller, but I haven't seen one in a store yet. Only one person has provided feedback so far, and it was more or less along the lines of "a big step up from M-Audio, but not as piano-like as Studiologic".

mike_o · Post by **mike_o** » Sat Jul 31, 2010 11:37 am

novation automap does not work with DP directly, but it does have HUI and automap will work with all AU plugins, just not MAS, I have had the novation automap remote SL MK1 25 key for 3 years and I love it.

the remote SL keyboards (MK1) have a hardware coded HUI template that does not need automap, but you can also run hui messages through automap for DP's transport and mix controls.

automap will not work with DP's MAS format so all of DP's native plugs will not work with automap, but all your 3rd party AU's will work perfectly with automap.

the akai mpk series are a better build quality, so I'd recommend an akai mpk 61 and a novation nocturn as an extra controller if you want automap for plugins (its AWESOME!!! - every VI gets the feeling of a hardware synth)

the akai's have better keys and pads but I dont know if they do HUI or not.

mhschmieder · Post by **mhschmieder** » Sun Aug 01, 2010 2:01 pm

FWIW there is a rebate going on right now for Akai MPK controllers at audiomidi.com:

http://audiomidienews.squarespace.com/a ... synth.html

Also, the Novation controllers are quite good, and the auto-map feature seems well-thought-out and continues to evolve, so that bodes well for the future.

Right now, you can get a Novation rig with ALL of their software thrown in for free! I bought all that stuff individually, and it's over $200 value. This means the Novation V-Station, Novation Bassstation, and the recent Effects Suite.

I forget whether that is vendor-specific or across-the-board at any e-store on-line. Maybe it even applies to in-store sales at Sweetwater etc. -- check their websites for details.

gallospole · Post by **gallospole** » Thu Sep 01, 2011 7:53 am

Apologies in advance if my inquiry is ignorant but I use the Remote 25 and would like it to control DP's virtual instruments like the MX4, Proton, etc. Currently, it can play the notes and perform pitch bends, though I can not get the knobs and faders to affect the virtual instruments' parameters.

Do I need Automap or is there another way?

Please note that the DP instruments show MIDI being rec'd when I manipulate the knobs and faders of the ReMote 25 but nothing is affected.

Thanks for any assistance and tolerating me.

Best, Gallospole

dcoscina · Post by **dcoscina** » Thu Sep 01, 2011 9:32 am

You can probably find some Kurzweil PC3's on the market used. Excellent weighted action for the PC3X and semi weighted on PC3.

I have a PC3X and love it.

Shooshie · Post by **Shooshie** » Sat Sep 03, 2011 11:43 pm

gallospole wrote:Apologies in advance if my inquiry is ignorant but I use the Remote 25 and would like it to control DP's virtual instruments like the MX4, Proton, etc. Currently, it can play the notes and perform pitch bends, though I can not get the knobs and faders to affect the virtual instruments' parameters.

Do I need Automap or is there another way?

Please note that the DP instruments show MIDI being rec'd when I manipulate the knobs and faders of the ReMote 25 but nothing is affected.

Thanks for any assistance and tolerating me.

Best, Gallospole

To access the parameters of the bundled synths, you need to use the NRPN controllers. Those are listed in the DP manual at the back of the chapter on the bundled instruments. For DP7, that's page 950 and onward for about 5 or 6 pages. You may have to set up a convert some continuous data to control them. If that's the case, you can use Reassign Continuous Data (page 583). Note that there is a field for NRPN data at the bottom of the window. (See graphic on page 583)

If your MIDI controller's faders and knobs can utilize MIDI Learn, then set them up to receive a MIDI message from DP, and then send one of the parameters (pitch bend, pan, loudness, harmonics, etc.) from one of the instruments and see if it learns that controller and can send it back.

If you can't generate or teach the NRPN (non-registered-parameter-number) data, you will need to use the real-time MIDI Plugin called "Reassign Continuous Data." This is not the same thing as the one mentioned above. The one mentioned above is in the Region menu, while this one is in the MIDI Plugins that are accessible through the Mixing Board above the MIDI tracks. Audio tracks have their plugins, but MIDI tracks have their own. Just pull down one of the insert menus in the channel strip for a MIDI track (Mixing Board), and you will find Reassign Continuous Data. Use that to convert any normal controllers to NRPN controllers. Then use the NRPN assigned to the parameter you wish to control, as listed in the charts starting on page 950.

This should enable you to use ANY MIDI controller hardware to manipulate the bundled synths. Good luck, and have fun!

Shooshie

Saintmatthew · Post by **Saintmatthew** » Wed Jul 06, 2016 10:58 am

So, I thought I'd resurrect this topic rather than start a new thread as there is relevant info and people with knowledge on the topic as demonstrated above might be notified as well.

Recently, ok not recently, but within the last couple years I bought a USB lighting controller (ENTTEC DMXIS) that is controlled by a plugin instrument. Problem: each DMX channel can receive a range of 0-255 but standard MIDI controllers use 7 bit resolution so only go 0-127. They recommend using NRPN controllers but I can't figure out how to "write in" NRPN controller lanes in a track. I even tried making a custom console to send NRPN date and then record it but while it will accept NRPN and 14 bit controller data, it won't output it or I can't figure out how to set it up to do so. Any hints from you console or MIDI gurus like Shooshie?

stubbsonic · Post by **stubbsonic** » Wed Jul 06, 2016 11:45 am

I'm interested in your question as well. At some point I hope to make use of a DIY control surface with NRPNs (for high-res controlling). But I don't know much about the ins & outs of NRPNs especially wrt DP.

I do suggest you just copy/paste your question into a new thread. I think the admins would agree this is really a new topic.

Shooshie · Post by **Shooshie** » Wed Jul 06, 2016 2:09 pm

I'm going to wait and see if someone who is already doing this jumps in. I haven't used NRPNs in a long time, and my experience with them is sketchy. If you don't get an answer in a day or two, I'll dredge up my books and files, and see what I can tell you. The part I don't remember is how you get two controllers to combine in a one number output. I don't think the DP plugin will do that. Does the receiving plugin allow for a two-controller input?

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