How do I turn "relative grid mode" OFF!

[Shooshie]

Ok, have you tried THIS method? Set the "Grid" to a value of a measure. Now move whatever you have to move, and it will end up in the same relative position. Even a mere click on the left/right arrow keys will send it flying to the next bar, in exactly the same relative position. You decide whether you want to be able to move it off/grid with the COMMAND key or on/grid with it. Turn off the grid and COMMAND will toggle it on temporarily. Turn on the grid and COMMAND will toggle it off temporarily.

mmm... I guess I don't really understand what you're saying there... other than holding the command will toggle the state of the grid.

Ok, you need to read the manual about setting the grid, or the "nudge amount." Once you get that figured out, set the edit grid for one measure. If you are in ¾ time, that will mean a dotted half. 4/4 time will need a whole note. And so forth. If your events are all relative to a downbeat, and you want it such that when you move them they fall relative to the next downbeat, then the edit grid will need to be set to a bar -- a whole note, for example -- and every time you move them they'll fall in the exact same place relative to that grid -- that downbeat.

There are yet other aspects of this, but they are the sorts of thing you learn and use when they pop up. I have trouble remembering them all when I'm not in front of DP. This is a pro-app, and it behaves like one. It enables things like this when you want them, but allows for a more free-form approach than, say, Logic, where everything is bound into the region until you learn the methods of freeing it up.

Shooshie

[Shooshie]

Ok, sorry. I just went back and re-read your first post. You aren't asking to be able to move things so that they come out positioned in the same place relative to the next downbeat or several bars away, etc.

The way you wrote it, it sounded as if you wanted to be able to move something to another measure, but have it remain in its relative position to the barline. But that's not what you want.

What you said that you want is to be able to simply move something to the barline -- freely, without constraints. That's the simplest of things. I'm amazed that you didn't learn this when reading the manual about constraining to the grid. There are two basic ways to do this:

1) Hold down the COMMAND key while moving. This toggles off the grid mode.
or
2) Turn off the GRID! It's in the upper right-hand corner of the edit window. And yes, the feature is there in the MIDI Edit Window and the Sequence Editor; always has been.

The default may be "grid on" but I don't remember. I haven't used a default in so long I can't remember how they are set. In any case, it's not a problem to change the grid mode so that things no longer snap to the grid, or snap to beats or markers or anything else. Dragging a note to ANY location is the most simple and basic function of DP. That's what we DO!

Shooshie

[benmrx]

I think there's a "communication breakdown" going on here.

I'm not looking to freely drag a note/region around... I have no problem turning off the grid, I have no problem using the command key to toggle the grid... what I can't seem to do is drag a region/note that is not on the grid, to be exactly on the grid, because when in grid mode it keeps the same relative position. I understand I could turn grid mode off, and freely drag a region and just try and get it reeeaaall close, but it would just be easier to type in the location. It's the fact that when using grid mode, it keeps the relative position, and there's no way to turn that function off.

[Shooshie]

One last thing, and this is one of the hazards of offering advice without being in front of DP: DP changed in version 6 and remains so now, such that you get to choose what information appears in the "Information Bar" of each window. Thus, you may not see these grid options in your windows. If not, go to Preferences / Editing / Information Bar, and check the options that you want to appear in each window in the list. Every window can be different. The purpose here is to allow you to have as much or as little clutter as you want in each window, and to recoup vertical space in each window as desired.

If you get rid of all information in the Information Bar of a window, you can still access it via the small "information windows" that you can add to the sidebar of the Consolidated Windows. So, the "Snap Information" window will show all the grid info that you need to turn snapping on or off.

Personally, I keep it in the edit windows themselves. It's just the way I'm accustomed to working.

Shooshie

[stephentayler]

I understand what you are trying to explain, you want to make a soundbite/region snap to the nearest beat (like in ProTools) just by moving it, rather than quantising. As I see it, it can remain 'relative' or free, but not as above.....

I'm not sure whether this is possible in DP, but perhaps someone can enlighten us??

Cheers

Stephen

[benmrx]

I understand what you are trying to explain, you want to make a soundbite/region snap to the nearest beat (like in ProTools) just by moving it, rather than quantising. As I see it, it can remain 'relative' or free, but not as above.....

I'm not sure whether this is possible in DP, but perhaps someone can enlighten us??

Cheers

Stephen

exactly (just like in pro tools... or logic, or live........ or according to the article I quoted earlier.. cubase.. although I've never used it). FWIW, having the "tab" key assigned to carrying out the quantize function is a decent workaround... the only problem is that sometimes it's quantizing it to the beat behind instead of in front,... or vice versa because it's just quantizing to the nearest beat... which might not be the one intended.

[Shooshie]

I think there's a "communication breakdown" going on here.

I'm not looking to freely drag a note/region around... I have no problem turning off the grid, I have no problem using the command key to toggle the grid... what I can't seem to do is drag a region/note that is not on the grid, to be exactly on the grid, because when in grid mode it keeps the same relative position. I understand I could turn grid mode off, and freely drag a region and just try and get it reeeaaall close, but it would just be easier to type in the location. It's the fact that when using grid mode, it keeps the relative position, and there's no way to turn that function off.

Oh. You're right. Communication breakdown.

Ok, someone above said to simply hit the Quantize button and hit OK. The first time you do that, you'll need to set up the Quantize window as you want it, but after that it's very simple. If you set it for an F-key (say, F-6), then quantizing a note is as fast as hitting the F6 button followed by Enter or Return. A fraction of a second, total elapsed time. Faster than dragging.

If you want an entire selection to move, so that the left-most note starts exactly on a beat, use the Shift command (Command-L) and type in the measure/beat that you want it to go to.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Shooshie

[benmrx]

I think there's a "communication breakdown" going on here.

I'm not looking to freely drag a note/region around... I have no problem turning off the grid, I have no problem using the command key to toggle the grid... what I can't seem to do is drag a region/note that is not on the grid, to be exactly on the grid, because when in grid mode it keeps the same relative position. I understand I could turn grid mode off, and freely drag a region and just try and get it reeeaaall close, but it would just be easier to type in the location. It's the fact that when using grid mode, it keeps the relative position, and there's no way to turn that function off.

Oh. You're right. Communication breakdown.

Ok, someone above said to simply hit the Quantize button and hit OK. The first time you do that, you'll need to set up the Quantize window as you want it, but after that it's very simple. If you set it for an F-key (say, F-6), then quantizing a note is as fast as hitting the F6 button followed by Enter or Return. A fraction of a second, total elapsed time. Faster than dragging.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Shooshie

No worries..

It's even faster having it assigned using the quickeys program because it also hits the enter button for me... so all I have to do is hit tab and it's quantized.. however it sometimes moves the region/note back a beat instead of forward, or vice versa... because it's just quantizing based on whatever beat it's closest to, which isn't always where I want it to go.

[Shooshie]

It's even faster having it assigned using the quickeys program because it also hits the enter button for me... so all I have to do is hit tab and it's quantized.. however it sometimes moves the region/note back a beat instead of forward, or vice versa... because it's just quantizing based on whatever beat it's closest to, which isn't always where I want it to go.

Well, no app can read your mind and know in advance what you want it to do, but you CAN set your quantize function to any amount -- a whole note (a bar), etc. so that it's not moving it backward. If it's closer to the wrong beat, then drag it before quantizing it!

And yes, QuicKeys does make it very easy.

[benmrx]

No.. I only wish it could read my mind! However, it would all be solved if DP had a true grid mode that allowed you to enable/disable the relative aspect. Then all you do is drag a note to where you want it. No quantize window, no mind reading, just one simple drag of the mouse. With the quantize option you have to first select the note/region you want quantized, so you're already dragging the mouse... it would just be nice... if it worked like every other daw out there in this one regard. In just about every other regard DP trumps 'em all (except maybe Pro Tools spot mode), but on this one thing, DP is seriously lacking.

[wheever]

So, if I want to snap a note that's between 2 other notes to the grid... I have to:

Select that note
Open the quantize window
Select the note value I want
Hit enter

OR: you could select the note, click in the time info field, type in the location you want the note to be in measures/beats/ticks and hit enter. Tab moves you between the fields, and I think there's a key command that takes you to the field in the first place.

OR: You could turn off smart selections, select the note, hit command-x, hit command-d, move the wiper to the position you want the note placed and either command-V if there are no other notes in that location to be blitzed, or command-M to merge if there are. (Using the keypad for locating the transport/wiper is the most efficient way of doing this)

Also, if you have the quantize window set to remain open after you apply, you can just select the notes you want quantized, click on the quantize window, then hit apply. (I use the command keys for this.) It's not that much more effort than dragging.

None of these are exactly what you want, but you might find one more palatable.

[bongo_x]

The trim tool doesn’t follow wether you have the grid on or not. Actually, that’s not right.
If you have the grid mode on, the trim does not snap to the grid, but if you hold cmd, which is usually bypass, it does. So its backwards from everything else if the grid is on.

If you have the grid mode off, it should be backwards again, like everything else, or at least stay the same, right? No, it just doesn’t work with the grid at all if you have grid mode off, whether you hold the cmd key or not.

bb

[Shooshie]

benmrx, "Selecting" is the principle method in DP. Yes, it's different from other DAWs in this regard, but other DAWs aren't as powerful in this way. They just chose a different method of working which is easier for the beginner and which provides a nice-looking approach for professional, too.

MOTU chose a more utilitarian approach. In DP it is expected that you learn to select what you work on. Selections are best utilized when you learn to maintain them over multiple operations, to add to the selection, to subtract from it, to select not just notes but their Continuous Controllers as well, and to be comfortable with selections, working on the same selection in multiple windows, treating them as your "regions." A selection, then, acts as a free-form region via which you can perform probably any operation that you could with the regions of Logic.

When you note that DP is different from every other DAW in this regard, it is for a good reason. If you want it like the other DAWs, then it wouldn't be DP. I get very annoyed at having to work in ways that someone else has chosen for me, using a method that for my way of working is slow and clunky. Learning to select in DP may feel slower at first, but it yields faster ways of working in the end.

One method which speeds things up dramatically, in my opinion, is the use of Scratch Tracks. Before you select something in a track, add a similar track first: a duplicate in all ways except that it is empty in content. Select the track and click CONTROL-COMMAND-S, if I'm not mistaken. Now, when you make the selection, drag it to the scratch track. At this point you can work on it as much as you like without re-selecting it. You can drag out notes that you wish to mute, or drag out the notes that you normally would cut, etc. Do this in the Tracks Overview Window.

The more work you learn to do in the Tracks Overview Window, the easier and faster you will work.There are a number of tricks to working in the TOW, as you will find in the Tips Sheet.

There is a search feature under the Edit Menu. Learn to use it. This can make most searches and selections instantaneous, as you can assign keyboard commands to them. Look for ways of fixing your problems that may seem unorthodox at first. For example, you said that many of your notes are too close to another beat to go where you want with quantization, so for those you would want to be able to "Nudge" them by an 8th note, 4ter note, or whatever, in order to get them close enough to quantize. Nudging is done with the left/right arrow keys.

Or, perhaps if it is a trend, you might want to incorporate the Shift command, which moves notes a certain amount which you specify, in the direction you specify. Once you type in the variables, they stay until you change them or until the next DP session. You can do the COMMAND-L in QuicKeys so that you hit a key for it, and another for Quantize.

All I'm saying is that yes, we're very aware of the lack of true regions in DP. While I would not mind seeing them added as an option for people like yourself, I would not use them myself. The methods for DP are fast and efficient, and if you learn them, you probably would not go back to regions, either. There are faster ways to work. DP offers you many ways of working; it's just a matter of learning them.

Shooshie

[Shooshie]

One last post (I hope): when you are working in MIDI, use the MIDI Graphic Editor, not the Sequence Editor. Some use the latter and prefer it. That's up to you. But you'd be cheating yourself not to try the MIDI Graphic Editor, at least. This window can occupy the entire monitor, which is my preference. I pop it out of the Consolidated Windows and make it full-screen by double clicking in the empty space beside the window tabs. You may find THIS interesting.

Use the Multi-track MIDI Editing Window for fastest work. To make this window the default for MIDI Editing, go to Preferences / Editing / MIDI Editing and choose the 2nd option in the first space: "Open one Graphic Editor for each sequence with all MIDI tracks." In the bottom-left-hand corner of the window is a little icon. Click it to open the track index in the window's own sidebar. (also works in the Sequence Editor) with this index you can choose the tracks that are displayed. Clicking to the far left of a track's name places a tiny "pencil" icon by its name. This makes it the Active Track. You can edit other tracks beside the active track, but only the active track will display its controllers and velocity icons. Use the drawing tools to edit a lot of information very quickly this way. You can choose to display only one type of information in the Controller display panel at the bottom of the window by selecting the type you want to display, then clicking the "Quickfilter" box to the left of the bottom scroll bar.

Lots of info above; print it out and use it while looking at it in DP to learn it the fastest.

Good luck, and remember: selections are your friends. They are your regions.

Shooshie

[benmrx]

Thanks for the tips, and I fully understand what you're getting at.. and this why I feel that for my needs, DP is the closest thing to a perfect DAW. Yeah, the search function is pretty awsome... it's almost identicle to Logics "transform" window.... although I don't think you can assign key commands to the transform window.... could be wrong there. I've gone through 99% of all the preferences.. that's always the very first thing I do when working with a new DAW. I personally prefer the "open one graphic editor" option myself.... and fwiw, I can't stand the consolidated window... that was the first thing I turned off.

At this point it's really just the "relative" snap feature that's putting me off.... well... that and the fact that I can't seem to figure out how to make the mixer window always show all the tracks. I.E., if I select a track in the TOW to make an edit, then go to the mixer... all tracks are hidden except the one I just made the edit on... although I havn't spent much time trying to figure that one out.