828es Performing Like a Champ via USB

Moderator: James Steele

Forum rules
Discussion related to installation, configuration and use of MOTU hardware such as MIDI interfaces, audio interfaces, etc. for Mac OSX
User avatar
HCMarkus
Posts: 9712
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:01 am
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Rancho Bohemia, California
Contact:

828es Performing Like a Champ via USB

Post by HCMarkus »

Just took delivery of a brand spankin' new 828es this evening. Brief testing yielded very positive results... Impressive setup routine and solid hardware and software, at least so far.

CPU load running USB appears identical with my 828mkII (Firewire). Cue HUGE sigh of relief. Clean audio output at a 128 buffer running a modest work-in-progress with MODO Bass, Stylus, BFD3, Ivory and Omnisphere + four audio tracks + four bussed (real time) Altiverbs and other FX in Digital Performer 9.51/Sierra on my Hex Mac Pro 5,1; no clicks, pops, crackles or stutters even when running Omnisphere and Ivory in real time at 128.

The smallest buffer the mkII lets me use is 128. I tried the es with buffers of 32 (noisy and unusable at this point in this project) and 64 (ok for tracking, but not mixing with occasional audible artifacts on this project), but don't consider this an issue for my uses as VI response at 128 is satisfactory and I use the hardware mixer for live monitoring. Purely subjectively speaking, latency for any given buffer size feels the same for the es USB and mkII Firewire.

Updating firmware was simple. The Web app is very cool... Looks like tracking monitoring will be very player-friendly; I'm viewing the hardware mixer (Aux View) on my networked iPhone. Way more cost-effective than Aviom or Beringer personal monitor stations and enough buses to feed at least seven individual stereo mixes. Looks like my studio life is about to get a lot less stressful.

Replacing my mkII with the es is pretty much a no-brainer. All the I/O, balanced/unbalanced outputs (cuts down on special cable requirements to use with unbalanced gear), and the foot switch jack for personal punching in (a feature missing from the 16A).

For Whom the Bell Tolls... my venerable 828mkII may soon be retired. :boohoo:
HC Markus
M1 Mac Studio Ultra • 64GB RAM • 828es • macOS 13.6.4 • DP 11.31
User avatar
mikehalloran
Posts: 15134
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:08 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Sillie Con Valley

Re: 828es Performing Like a Champ via USB

Post by mikehalloran »

My mkII is still going strong but I’ve been eying replacements for that time...
DP 11.31; 828mkII FW, micro lite, M4, MTP/AV USB Firmware 2.0.1
2023 Mac Studio M2 8TB, 192GB RAM, OS Sonoma 14.4, USB4 8TB external, M-Audio AIR 192|14, Mackie ProFxv3 6/10/12; 2012 MBPs Catalina, Mojave
IK-NI-Izotope-PSP-Garritan-Antares, LogicPro X, Finale 27.4, Dorico 5.2, Notion 6, Overture 5, TwistedWave, DSP-Q 5, SmartScore64 Pro, Toast 20 Pro
User avatar
Tonio
Posts: 1427
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: San Diego

Re: 828es Performing Like a Champ via USB

Post by Tonio »

cool Markus,
How's the potentiometer , the monitoring portion is what interests me. Hopefully get rid of my cheapy box
Mac Studio MAX 2TB/ 64GB RAM / DP11.2 / 828ES//
MP 5.1 3.33- 3 duo / OS10.14.6 / RX580 /DP10.13/828ES
User avatar
HCMarkus
Posts: 9712
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:01 am
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Rancho Bohemia, California
Contact:

Re: 828es Performing Like a Champ via USB

Post by HCMarkus »

Tonio wrote:cool Markus,
How's the potentiometer , the monitoring portion is what interests me. Hopefully get rid of my cheapy box
Since I have a monitor controller, I haven’t used it!
dix
Posts: 2986
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: San Francisco
Contact:

Re: 828es Performing Like a Champ via USB

Post by dix »

Thanks for this report! I’m looking to replace my 2408mk3 in the next year and the 808es is high on the list (that and the Antelope Discreet-8). Of course the coolest thing about the es and the D8 is that they have USB and TB, futureproofing them for the Thunderbolt future. I don’t have a need for all the headphone monitoring options either, but it still looks like a great I/O for the $.

Glad to hear running the es in USB isn’t any harder on CPU than FW. I’d be curious how it compared to pci I/Os in that regard....or just any general info on pci vs usb as it relates to cpu and latency
14-inch MBP M1 Max (2021), 13.6.x, 64GB RAM, UAD Quad Tb Satellite, 4 displays ::: 2009 4,1 > 5,1 MacPro 12-core 3.33 ghz , 10.14.x, 96GB RAM, GeForce GTX 770 , NewerTech eSATA/USB3 PCIe Host Adapter, UAD-2 Quad, ::: 15-inch MBP (2015) 10.14.x, 16GB RAM ::: Lynx Aurora (n) USB ::: DP (latest version), Vienna Ensemble Pro danwool.com
User avatar
HCMarkus
Posts: 9712
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:01 am
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Rancho Bohemia, California
Contact:

Re: 828es Performing Like a Champ via USB

Post by HCMarkus »

I've been digging the web-based app; although I haven't been in-studio for two days due to competing Holiday Season demands, I have been leaving the 828es powered on (the rest of the studio shut down) and have thus been able to access and work on programming the i/o matrix remotely from my home (which is on the same network as the studio). Careful planning is required to make the most of the vast routing capabilities the unit provides, and I like having the chance to experiment, ponder and grok the interface from the comfort of my easy chair.

Password protecting the 828es allows others using iPhones or iPads to access personal monitor mixes but not screw up the overall setup. So far I've successfully installed the MOTU Discovery App on my iPhone 7 and an iPad Air. Adjusting monitor mixes is certainly easier on the iPad, but I will soon install the just-released 828es firmware update, which reportedly adds enhanced features for touch screen operation and may improve the iPhone experience. Although it simplifies connection, I don't think the Discovery App is required, as one can simply enter the interface's web address in any browser that is on the same network.

As far as sound goes, I had no complaints with the 828mkII (which, like the 2408mkIII, benches very accurately - see Audio Diffmaker), and have none with the new interface. Recordings can be as clean as you want them to be.
dix
Posts: 2986
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: San Francisco
Contact:

Re: 828es Performing Like a Champ via USB

Post by dix »

Sounds like my kind of Christmas holiday! :)
As far as sound goes, I had no complaints with the 828mkII (which, like the 2408mkIII, benches very accurately - see Audio Diffmaker), and have none with the new interface. Recordings can be as clean as you want them to be.
So no big dif with the new DAs? I'm familiar with Diffmaker specs, but as I've mentioned elsewhere my Apogee Ensemble i/o sounds noticeably better to me than my 2408mk3 - possibly just a matter of taste. That said, I hope someone does a Diffmaker test on a 828es soon. With the new DA I'd think it would be even higher than previous MOTU interfaces.
14-inch MBP M1 Max (2021), 13.6.x, 64GB RAM, UAD Quad Tb Satellite, 4 displays ::: 2009 4,1 > 5,1 MacPro 12-core 3.33 ghz , 10.14.x, 96GB RAM, GeForce GTX 770 , NewerTech eSATA/USB3 PCIe Host Adapter, UAD-2 Quad, ::: 15-inch MBP (2015) 10.14.x, 16GB RAM ::: Lynx Aurora (n) USB ::: DP (latest version), Vienna Ensemble Pro danwool.com
User avatar
HCMarkus
Posts: 9712
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:01 am
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Rancho Bohemia, California
Contact:

Re: 828es Performing Like a Champ via USB

Post by HCMarkus »

Maybe my ears are deficient, but I was always happy with the 828mkII. That said, I'll be doing some serious listening comparisons soon. The real problem in doing so is it won't be ABX testing...

Here's the latest list of Audio Diffmaker results at Gearslutz. No 828es, but one can expect it will test similarly to the 16A and Symphony, with which it reportedly shares converters.

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/showpos ... count=1480

The interesting thing comparing this list with the previous one (using 10 passes, not 1) is that the prior list sorted based on Core Depth, not Difference. Sorting by Core Depth, the 16A and Symphony come out on top. Sorting by Diff, they are more mid-pack.

What the numbers mean as far as actual sound of the conversion... higher by either measurement means you get back closer to what you put in. Whether one LIKES the way a converter sounds (assuming one can actually tell the difference in blind testing) is an entirely different question!
User avatar
HCMarkus
Posts: 9712
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:01 am
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Rancho Bohemia, California
Contact:

Re: 828es Performing Like a Champ via USB

Post by HCMarkus »

Everything is working thru the new MOTU 828es, including 6 monitor mixes controllable from any mobile device, external reverb return into DP, talkback, and all the goesintos and outofs. I am glad I took a week to understand the routing matrix before replacing the 828mkII in-studio.

I am also very glad I exported a copy of my routing setup, as I just found out that if you use "Password" as your 828es password, the device won't accept it. Ooops. :smash:

Off to do a factory re-set.

Edit: Re-set not required. There is a front-panel accessible "Clear Password" function that did the trick!
apanacci
Posts: 566
Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Toronto

Re: 828es Performing Like a Champ via USB

Post by apanacci »

Hey guys, does 828e have reverb available in Cue Mix when you are at 96k, thanks !
2009 8 Core 5.1, 2012 6 Core MacPro,s , (32 gigs Ram) Mojave 14.6, Radeon 570, MacBookPros 2011, 2017 , 828MKIII Hybrid, 828X, MicroBook II, 8Pre, Nuendo 8ch A/D converter, PreSonus DigiMax LT ,DP11 , PT 2022.12, Cubase Elements 10.5, Peak 7, Logic 9 ,WaveLab 11, Reason 10, DSP-Quattro 5 ,many plugins , mics and synths. http://www.panaccimusic.com
User avatar
HCMarkus
Posts: 9712
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:01 am
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Rancho Bohemia, California
Contact:

Re: 828es Performing Like a Champ via USB

Post by HCMarkus »

apanacci wrote:Hey guys, does 828e have reverb available in Cue Mix when you are at 96k, thanks !
☛ Effects are disabled when operating at 4x sample rates (176.4 or 192 kHz).

So says the manual. I have been running 44k sessions only to date.
apanacci
Posts: 566
Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Toronto

Re: 828es Performing Like a Champ via USB

Post by apanacci »

So 96k is available at 2 times then ?
2009 8 Core 5.1, 2012 6 Core MacPro,s , (32 gigs Ram) Mojave 14.6, Radeon 570, MacBookPros 2011, 2017 , 828MKIII Hybrid, 828X, MicroBook II, 8Pre, Nuendo 8ch A/D converter, PreSonus DigiMax LT ,DP11 , PT 2022.12, Cubase Elements 10.5, Peak 7, Logic 9 ,WaveLab 11, Reason 10, DSP-Quattro 5 ,many plugins , mics and synths. http://www.panaccimusic.com
User avatar
HCMarkus
Posts: 9712
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:01 am
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Rancho Bohemia, California
Contact:

Re: 828es Performing Like a Champ via USB

Post by HCMarkus »

Bought my wife a new iPad for Christmas. She's happy, and so am I, as I stole her old one and am using it as a monitor mix controller in the studio. iOS devices are super easy to pair with the 828es; just install the MOTU Discovery App and, as long as you are on the same network, you can quickly gain access to the 828. Mixer response is fairly laggy , but once an Aux Mix Page is locked in, it's pretty simple to fine tune a personal mix on the tablet without too much trouble.

I have an old 4" x 7" tablet a family member gave me when he got it for free from Verizon some years back. It's an Android device, so there is no Discovery App available. I charged it, wiped its memory, installed Opera (which, unlike Chrome or Firefox, allows full-screen viewing in Android), and plugged in the Net ID from my 828es. After some hair pulling (enabling cookies appears to be required), I got the 828 mixer up in the browser and I am now ready to hand this and the iPad off to studio clients who want a little bigger screen than their phone provides. And both tablets can be set up in advance to avoid client confusion.

Two notes:
1) The 828es Net ID can change from boot to boot. Gotta' get it right in the browser or FAIL.
2) Currently, with a password-protected 828es, the "Touch Interface" is not working unless you are logged in with the password. The original mixer interface works fine with touchscreens, but the touch interface shows (as yet unfulfilled) promise.

My lust for Aviom has been forgotten. A PreSonus DigiMax FS connected optically drives an ART Head Amp Pro for four discrete monitor mixes. A fifth mix mirrors the Main Outs and provides Solo functions in 828 Head Amp 1, and a sixth feeds the 828 Head Amp 2.

Like the other AVB interfaces, the 828es outputs don't like unbalanced TS plugs. So I spent some time soldering up six TRS (ring floating) to RCA cables and got my surround system running. Helpfully, the 828 allows Monitor A to be set up in any surround format up to 7.1, using Analog Outs 1-8. So I've got Monitor A driving my 5.1 system and Monitor B running to my PreSonus Monitor Station for the more typical (for me) stereo workflow. The remaining two Analog Outs feed the Leslie in the tracking room and a TC Harmony box I use on occasion. The SPDIF I/O is dedicated to a Lexicon hardware reverb that I like a lot better than the built-in 828es reverb. With signal routed from the 828's internal mixer or DP, the Lexicon can be used as a tracking or mixing reverb.

A few connections moved around in DP's Bundles window and my workflow is familiar; like the 828mkII, but better!

The 828es is now fully integrated into the studio. What a solid and great-sounding, yet very reasonable cost, setup.
User avatar
HCMarkus
Posts: 9712
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:01 am
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Rancho Bohemia, California
Contact:

Re: 828es Performing Like a Champ via USB

Post by HCMarkus »

Using the iPad to control the built-in hardware ("AVB") mixer avoids having to move my Mac Pro's focus from DP to the AVB mixer and back again when adjusting the monitor mix while tracking. Handy.

I track a lot of vocals and acoustic instruments in my control room. When the client or I want to hear playback thru the studio monitors, I need to mute the live mic(s) to avoid ringing or feedback. With the AVB mixer controlled from the iPad sitting on my desk, muting and unmuting require only a touch. No more jockeying back and forth between applications.

EDIT: Routed DP's Click thru the AVB mixer; now I can mute and unmute it silently from the iPad
dix
Posts: 2986
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: San Francisco
Contact:

Re: 828es Performing Like a Champ via USB

Post by dix »

I'm trying to figure out if the 1/4" TRS outputs on the 828es have the same specs as the Main Outs. I do a lot of surround mixing and was planning on using 1/4" TRS outputs as my mix monitor outputs, not, necessarily, the XLR Main Outputs.

Is the only diff between the Main Outs and the TRS outs the connector config, or are the Mains better? Do all the TRS outs have the ESS Sabre32 ADCs?

Thx
14-inch MBP M1 Max (2021), 13.6.x, 64GB RAM, UAD Quad Tb Satellite, 4 displays ::: 2009 4,1 > 5,1 MacPro 12-core 3.33 ghz , 10.14.x, 96GB RAM, GeForce GTX 770 , NewerTech eSATA/USB3 PCIe Host Adapter, UAD-2 Quad, ::: 15-inch MBP (2015) 10.14.x, 16GB RAM ::: Lynx Aurora (n) USB ::: DP (latest version), Vienna Ensemble Pro danwool.com
Post Reply