New MOTU 828es with 2009 MacPro

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Discussion related to installation, configuration and use of MOTU hardware such as MIDI interfaces, audio interfaces, etc. for Mac OSX
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dix
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New MOTU 828es with 2009 MacPro

Post by dix »

MOTU 828es 28x32 Thunderbolt / USB 2.0 Audio Interface http://motu.com/products/proaudio/828es

The new MOTU 828es looks pretty sweet. Currently I use an Apogee Ensemble with the same converters, basically as an ADC via ADAT for my 2408mk3. Unless I'm missing something, I believe I could replace my 2408mk3 and the Ensemble and have a Thunderbolt-ready I/O for when I move to a TB system.

What I'm not clear on is if I could expect the same performance that I'm getting now with the 2408mk3/424-PCI with the 828es via USB2. Also, I'm not up to speed on how Ethernet and AVB would fit into the picture. From what I can figure out (based on this FAQ answer http://motu.com/products/proaudio/828es) it looks like with a non-TB Mac I'd have to use USB2 and then access the 828es's Web app via Ethernet. Can anyone confirm if that's right? ...I'm mainly just running at 48k.

Unless I'm mistaken I don't see any other I/Os out there that are viable on both older non-TB and new TB Macs. I'm trying to avoid having to rebuy everything all at once once the time is right to move to a new Mac Pro.
14-inch MBP M1 Max (2021), 13.6.x, 64GB RAM, UAD Quad Tb Satellite, 4 displays ::: 2009 4,1 > 5,1 MacPro 12-core 3.33 ghz , 10.14.x, 96GB RAM, GeForce GTX 770 , NewerTech eSATA/USB3 PCIe Host Adapter, UAD-2 Quad, ::: 15-inch MBP (2015) 10.14.x, 16GB RAM ::: Lynx Aurora (n) USB ::: DP (latest version), Vienna Ensemble Pro danwool.com
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mikehalloran
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Re: New MOTU 828es with 2009 MacPro

Post by mikehalloran »

What I’m seeing is no Cue Mix.

Not really an issue if latency is really that low but is it over USB 2?

I’m considering it, too.
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Re: New MOTU 828es with 2009 MacPro

Post by nk_e »

Posting to get notified of an answer. I have the same question about performance over USB.

Also, I thought Ethernet could be used for audio also? There was an article in a recent SOS about Ethernet-based Audio....

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Re: New MOTU 828es with 2009 MacPro

Post by HCMarkus »

On MOTU's AVB interfaces, latency over Ethernet is higher than either TB or USB. Whether that is a concern depends on the user's needs.
dix
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Re: New MOTU 828es with 2009 MacPro

Post by dix »

I thought Ethernet could be used for audio also? There was an article in a recent SOS about Ethernet-based Audio....
I read somewhere that pre-TB Macs aren't capable of audio over ethernet. ...I don't remember where. sry.
What I’m seeing is no Cue Mix.
I may be wrong, but it looks like all the AVB I/Os use the MOTU Pro Audio Control web app, not CueMix. Kind of a bummer. I've used the web app in projects, and it's not as evolved as CueMix. It works well as the centerpiece app for the sprawling MOTU AVB universe, but it still feels rudimentary for use in project studios.

Also, our beloved Direct-Hardware-Playthrough is not accessible with the the 828es. Looks like that DP function may be gone forever :( Of course if the latency is so low it won't be too much of an issue. But, yeah I too wonder if the latency is as low via USB as TB.
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dix
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Re: New MOTU 828es with 2009 MacPro

Post by dix »

mikehalloran wrote:Not really an issue if latency is really that low but is it over USB 2?
Just found this
Advanced extras, incorporated from MOTU's flagship 1248 interface, include ESS™ Sabre32 Ultra™ DAC technology with 123 dB dynamic range, ultra low round trip latency (RTL) performance as low as 1.6 ms at 96 kHz over Thunderbolt (and 1.9 ms over USB),
...but I don't actually know if that's good or not?
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Re: New MOTU 828es with 2009 MacPro

Post by HCMarkus »

dix wrote:I read somewhere that pre-TB Macs aren't capable of audio over ethernet. ...I don't remember where.
I believe AVB-compliant ethernet PCIe cards are available,
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Re: New MOTU 828es with 2009 MacPro

Post by dix »

I believe AVB-compliant ethernet PCIe cards are available,
But I think Ethernet is the slowest of the three i/o methods - though I'm not sure that point is relevant. Unless you're running a really low buffer setting one still will need to monitor via the Audio Control app.

Also, they tout "include ESS™ Sabre32 Ultra™ DAC technology ". But no mention of ADC? Isn't the initial conversion more important than the output? What am I missing here?
14-inch MBP M1 Max (2021), 13.6.x, 64GB RAM, UAD Quad Tb Satellite, 4 displays ::: 2009 4,1 > 5,1 MacPro 12-core 3.33 ghz , 10.14.x, 96GB RAM, GeForce GTX 770 , NewerTech eSATA/USB3 PCIe Host Adapter, UAD-2 Quad, ::: 15-inch MBP (2015) 10.14.x, 16GB RAM ::: Lynx Aurora (n) USB ::: DP (latest version), Vienna Ensemble Pro danwool.com
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Re: New MOTU 828es with 2009 MacPro

Post by dix »

Found a useful thread on GearSlutz on the 828es, with posts from Travis at MOTU. https://www.gearslutz.com/board/new-pro ... st12890615
14-inch MBP M1 Max (2021), 13.6.x, 64GB RAM, UAD Quad Tb Satellite, 4 displays ::: 2009 4,1 > 5,1 MacPro 12-core 3.33 ghz , 10.14.x, 96GB RAM, GeForce GTX 770 , NewerTech eSATA/USB3 PCIe Host Adapter, UAD-2 Quad, ::: 15-inch MBP (2015) 10.14.x, 16GB RAM ::: Lynx Aurora (n) USB ::: DP (latest version), Vienna Ensemble Pro danwool.com
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Re: New MOTU 828es with 2009 MacPro

Post by travisvhagan »

Hi all,

Glad to see some interest in the 828es! Just wanted to jump in a clear a few things up.

One can use the Ethernet connection for direct AVB audio on a new Mac (Thunderbolt ready, running 10.10 or later). Performance is better overall with USB or Thunderbolt in terms of channel counts and latency, but this is still a good option for long cable runs (up to 100 meters).
The Ethernet connection is best suited for adding other AVB ready devices to your system for more I/O.
The 828es does not need to be connected to a computer with Ethernet for access to the web app. This runs on the device itself and is accessed through a web browser on your computer regardless of connection type, whether it's USB, Thunderbolt of Ethernet. If the computer or 828es is connected to a network, the control app can be accessed from any mobile device or computer also on the network. You can use the control app to set up direct hardware monitoring, separate headphone or monitor mixes and use the built in DSP with more flexibility than CueMix.
ADC Specs can be found on the Tech Specs page. The ADC performance is similar to the 1248.

http://motu.com/products/proaudio/828es/specs.html

Travis | MOTU Tech Support
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