Looking for Used Mac to Host DP

Moderator: James Steele

Forum rules
Discussion related to installation, configuration and use of MOTU hardware such as MIDI interfaces, audio interfaces, etc. for Mac OSX
AsensoryMusic
Posts: 54
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2016 11:30 am
Primary DAW OS: MacOS

Looking for Used Mac to Host DP

Post by AsensoryMusic »

As the subject said, I need a machine on which to host DP. There are plenty of options on Craigslist, but before I give some stranger my money, I was wondering if anyone here knew of a safe, reliable place to acquire Mac hardware for the purpose of running Digital Performer, etc.

thanks!
User avatar
James Steele
Site Administrator
Posts: 21079
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: San Diego, CA - U.S.A.
Contact:

Re: Looking for Used Mac to Host DP

Post by James Steele »

AsensoryMusic wrote:As the subject said, I need a machine on which to host DP. There are plenty of options on Craigslist, but before I give some stranger my money, I was wondering if anyone here knew of a safe, reliable place to acquire Mac hardware for the purpose of running Digital Performer, etc.

thanks!
I got my current Mac at http://macofalltrades.com on a sale and have been very happy with it.

If you're not squeamish about opening up a computer, your best bang for the buck still seems to be to get a used MacPro 4,1 or 5,1 and upgrade the processor(s) to a hexcore. I did it with my MacPro 4,1 and am very happy with it. The 4,1 requires updating the firmware with a modified version that recognizes the hexcore chip. Anyway, that's more information than you may have been looking for. There are threads on this board about the upgrade and how to do it.
JamesSteeleProject.com | Facebook | Instagram | Twitter

Mac Studio M1 Max, 64GB/2TB, MacOS 14.4.1 Sonoma, DP 11.31, MOTU 828es, MOTU 24Ai, MOTU MIDI Express XT, UAD-2 TB3 Satellite OCTO, Console 1 Mk2, Avid S3, NI Komplete Kontrol S88 Mk2, Red Type B, Millennia HV-3C, Warm Audio WA-2A, AudioScape 76F, Dean guitars, Marshall amps, etc., etc.!
AsensoryMusic
Posts: 54
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2016 11:30 am
Primary DAW OS: MacOS

Re: Looking for Used Mac to Host DP

Post by AsensoryMusic »

Yikes ...

I thought a Macbook Pro with an i7 quad from around 2010-2013 would run DP well enough, since so many live gigs I have seen seem to use it. Also, MOTU's system requirements indicate it would suffice. My old machine was (is) a PPC Mac Pro 2.7 Dual ... but its not supported anymore, obviously, and threw some sparks the last time I plugged it in!


Hmm, now I am rethinking everything. I always wonder how old a machine has to be before Apple stops all support, new OSX incompatibility issues arise, etc. I saw this on MOAT:
http://www.macofalltrades.com/Mac-Pro-1 ... c-m10a.htm

I'm not sure how to determine whether its a 4,1 or 5,1, maybe I'll see if the serial number is in the ad and look it up. thanks for the response, I have some thinking to do.
User avatar
HCMarkus
Posts: 9713
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:01 am
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Rancho Bohemia, California
Contact:

Re: Looking for Used Mac to Host DP

Post by HCMarkus »

AsensoryMusic wrote:Yikes ...

I thought a Macbook Pro with an i7 quad from around 2010-2013 would run DP well enough, since so many live gigs I have seen seem to use it. Also, MOTU's system requirements indicate it would suffice. My old machine was (is) a PPC Mac Pro 2.7 Dual ... but its not supported anymore, obviously, and threw some sparks the last time I plugged it in!

Hmm, now I am rethinking everything. I always wonder how old a machine has to be before Apple stops all support, new OSX incompatibility issues arise, etc.

I saw this on MOAT:
http://www.macofalltrades.com/Mac-Pro-1 ... c-m10a.htm

I'm not sure how to determine whether its a 4,1 or 5,1, maybe I'll see if the serial number is in the ad and look it up. thanks for the response, I have some thinking to do.
The linked is 5,1.

2010 and 2012 MPs are 5,1s.
2009 MPs are 4,1s.
Do not get anything older than a 4,1, as upgradability is very limited.

With a simple firmware update, you can make any single-CPU 4,1 into a 5,1 for all intents and purposes, including macOS Sierra support and the ability to upgrade the CPU to a 6 core W3690 or 80 or X5690 or 80.

Dual CPU 4,1s also respond to the firmware update, but CPU swap is complicated by the fact 2009 DUAL CPU MPs used lidless CPUs. The CPU upgrade is still possible, but more difficult.

If shopping for a single CPU MP, the best bang for the buck is a 2009 2.66 4 core ($4-500), flashed to 5,1 (free) and upgraded to 6 core W3680 or X5680 (about $100). If you need better graphics, most versions of the new AMD RX460 GPU is fully supported (except for boot screen) under Sierra. I am running a Gigabyte 4gb RX460 that cost me $90 on sale new. Add RAM (24gb recommended - values available at eBay) and SSDs (Samsung 850EVO is my fave) to taste.
HC Markus
M1 Mac Studio Ultra • 64GB RAM • 828es • macOS 13.6.4 • DP 11.31
AsensoryMusic
Posts: 54
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2016 11:30 am
Primary DAW OS: MacOS

Re: Looking for Used Mac to Host DP

Post by AsensoryMusic »

As I research, I see some deals out there on eBay, returnable if not happy. Next question is how beneficial is dual-processor over single in this application?
User avatar
HCMarkus
Posts: 9713
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:01 am
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Rancho Bohemia, California
Contact:

Re: Looking for Used Mac to Host DP

Post by HCMarkus »

AsensoryMusic wrote:how beneficial is dual-processor over single in this application?
Assuming similar CPUs, very. i.e. a Hex 2010/2012 is very close to an Octo 2009 due to advances in CPU tech in the interim. But remember, a 2009 can become a 2010/2012 as discussed in my last post.

Check Geekbench for an idea of comparative horsepower.
User avatar
mikehalloran
Posts: 15134
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:08 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Sillie Con Valley

Re: Looking for Used Mac to Host DP

Post by mikehalloran »

PPC Mac Pro??? What is that? The last PPC was the G5.
DP 11.31; 828mkII FW, micro lite, M4, MTP/AV USB Firmware 2.0.1
2023 Mac Studio M2 8TB, 192GB RAM, OS Sonoma 14.4, USB4 8TB external, M-Audio AIR 192|14, Mackie ProFxv3 6/10/12; 2012 MBPs Catalina, Mojave
IK-NI-Izotope-PSP-Garritan-Antares, LogicPro X, Finale 27.4, Dorico 5.2, Notion 6, Overture 5, TwistedWave, DSP-Q 5, SmartScore64 Pro, Toast 20 Pro
User avatar
HCMarkus
Posts: 9713
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:01 am
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Rancho Bohemia, California
Contact:

Re: Looking for Used Mac to Host DP

Post by HCMarkus »

mikehalloran wrote:PPC Mac Pro??? What is that? The last PPC was the G5.
Same great cheese grater box... easy to get confused, but you're right Mike.
User avatar
mikehalloran
Posts: 15134
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:08 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Sillie Con Valley

Re: Looking for Used Mac to Host DP

Post by mikehalloran »

As HC points out, that 2010 should be a 5.1.

Here are the originl equipment specs for all Mac Pros. Good to have available if looking at other machines.
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/m ... acpro.html
DP 11.31; 828mkII FW, micro lite, M4, MTP/AV USB Firmware 2.0.1
2023 Mac Studio M2 8TB, 192GB RAM, OS Sonoma 14.4, USB4 8TB external, M-Audio AIR 192|14, Mackie ProFxv3 6/10/12; 2012 MBPs Catalina, Mojave
IK-NI-Izotope-PSP-Garritan-Antares, LogicPro X, Finale 27.4, Dorico 5.2, Notion 6, Overture 5, TwistedWave, DSP-Q 5, SmartScore64 Pro, Toast 20 Pro
AsensoryMusic
Posts: 54
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2016 11:30 am
Primary DAW OS: MacOS

Re: Looking for Used Mac to Host DP

Post by AsensoryMusic »

mikehalloran wrote:PPC Mac Pro??? What is that? The last PPC was the G5.
Yup, that's what it was (not a "Mac Pro.") G5 2.7 dual. I still have it, but the power supply is hosed, given that sparks flew out of the chassis when I last plugged it in.
AsensoryMusic
Posts: 54
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2016 11:30 am
Primary DAW OS: MacOS

Re: Looking for Used Mac to Host DP

Post by AsensoryMusic »

Thanks for the info, folks. I think I found a 5,1 hexcore to grab. I'll start there and see what, if anything, needs to be upgraded. I'm looking forward to uninhibited creativity, well, uninhibited by my setup, quite inhibited by my brain on many occasions. I miss using DP and all my plug-ins, including Ethno, so this is good.
User avatar
mikehalloran
Posts: 15134
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:08 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Sillie Con Valley

Re: Looking for Used Mac to Host DP

Post by mikehalloran »

AsensoryMusic wrote:
mikehalloran wrote:PPC Mac Pro??? What is that? The last PPC was the G5.
Yup, that's what it was (not a "Mac Pro.") G5 2.7 dual. I still have it, but the power supply is hosed, given that sparks flew out of the chassis when I last plugged it in.
Oh my... Any Intel Mac will be an improvement. I was blown away when I replaced my G5 in 2010. Not just DP—everything was better.

Your electric bill savings should pay for it within a year—easily did when I replaced mine (I bet you think I'm kidding).

Don't know what you plan to use for monitors. Modern backlit LCD HDMI screens are actually cool to the touch and use very little juice. Great 24" units can be had under $200; Under $250 for 27". The stock GPU can usually handle 2 monitors through the Display Ports using $6 adapters.
https://www.amazon.com/HP-Pavilion-27xw ... XPS04MJG4Y

You want current offerings—nothing before 2015, no matter what the sale price. You may or may not need inexpensive adapters depending on the video card.
DP 11.31; 828mkII FW, micro lite, M4, MTP/AV USB Firmware 2.0.1
2023 Mac Studio M2 8TB, 192GB RAM, OS Sonoma 14.4, USB4 8TB external, M-Audio AIR 192|14, Mackie ProFxv3 6/10/12; 2012 MBPs Catalina, Mojave
IK-NI-Izotope-PSP-Garritan-Antares, LogicPro X, Finale 27.4, Dorico 5.2, Notion 6, Overture 5, TwistedWave, DSP-Q 5, SmartScore64 Pro, Toast 20 Pro
User avatar
buzzsmith
Posts: 3097
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Houston
Contact:

Re: Looking for Used Mac to Host DP

Post by buzzsmith »

Following.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Early 2009 Mac Pro 4,1>5,1 3.33 GHz Hex Core Intel Xeon OS X 10.8.5 SSD (32 gigs RAM)
DP 9.51 PCI-424e / original 2408, 2408mkII, 24I/O, MTP-AV

Yamaha C7 Conservatory Grand
Hammond B-3 / Leslie 145
Focal Twin6 Be(s)

User avatar
James Steele
Site Administrator
Posts: 21079
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: San Diego, CA - U.S.A.
Contact:

Re: Looking for Used Mac to Host DP

Post by James Steele »

mikehalloran wrote:Oh my... Any Intel Mac will be an improvement. I was blown away when I replaced my G5 in 2010. Not just DP—everything was better.
Ditto! When I went from my G5 to the first 2006 MacPro I was absolutely stunned!
JamesSteeleProject.com | Facebook | Instagram | Twitter

Mac Studio M1 Max, 64GB/2TB, MacOS 14.4.1 Sonoma, DP 11.31, MOTU 828es, MOTU 24Ai, MOTU MIDI Express XT, UAD-2 TB3 Satellite OCTO, Console 1 Mk2, Avid S3, NI Komplete Kontrol S88 Mk2, Red Type B, Millennia HV-3C, Warm Audio WA-2A, AudioScape 76F, Dean guitars, Marshall amps, etc., etc.!
User avatar
HCMarkus
Posts: 9713
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:01 am
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Rancho Bohemia, California
Contact:

Re: Looking for Used Mac to Host DP

Post by HCMarkus »

OP: Don't buy a 3,1. Greg upgraded for a reason.

Greg: I don't think this is a site that allows for sale ads. James?
Post Reply