Daisy-chain two motus: your experience.

[Nihil]

Hi folks,
I'm new to this forum.

I used to rely on my two motus (828mkII and UltraLite Hybrid mkIII) daisy-chained via firewire on my mac, it's a great and (quite) simple way to obtain lots of inputs. I've built an aggregate device from OSX audio/MIDI setup and it has ran smoothly for (some) time.
Recently my 828 has started acting weird, initially I thought it could be some system/driver-related issue (it started after I've upgraded the OS) but now I'm quite convinced my 828 is slowly dying..I'm also in contact with tech support, but I don't think we'll be able to resolve this.

So I was thinking of buying an 828mkIII, either FW or Hybrid. But since I need a reliable system, and I don't want to spend my money for something that is not, I'd like to hear from you: what's your experience in daisy-chain two motus? is/was a reliable set up for your needs? would you use it to play live? have you experienced issues, troubles?

Hope to hear something from you, I need to get confident in Motu's hardware again, because I have to decide if buy another one or not.

Cheers!

[mikehalloran]

There are many threads on this. Done properly as you did, it works fine. What else do you want to know?

The 828mkIII Hybrid and the 828x are current production units. The FW only was discontinued years ago so I would recommend against that.

The very last 828mkII units are about 9 years old. I bought one of them on close-out and it's still working great. When it no longer does, time to get something else. I'll cross that bridge when the time comes.

[Nihil]

There are many threads on this. Done properly as you did, it works fine. What else do you want to know?

Yes, I've already read some...it's just this kind of post are usually about problems one might have, not really what I need to read.
Add this lines I had from technical support and you should understand my hesitation:

MOTU Audio Setup makes it very easy to clock two MOTU devices together over ADAT Optical/S/PDIF, however this can get a little tricky with daisy chaining units via Firewire.

Don't know what the guy was trying to say, it wasn't 'tricky' for me, but yeah, I guess it's time to get a new one.
Actually I was considering to get a second hand 828mkIII FW, the price is tempting..are you recommending against that because it might be more difficoult to repair it in case, or are there other reasons?

Thanks

[mikehalloran]

OK... you did it right so "tricky" doesn't apply to you. The instructions for doing so works as you found out but others have had problems as you have read. Declare victory and don't overthink this.


MOTU supports the current units under warranty and there is an inexpensive exchange/rebuild program for those if warranty has expired.

I do not know if the older mkIII FW units are still supported under the exchange/rebuild program. If you ask MOTU, please post here what you find out. This is no longer available for the mkII as you have probably been told.

By cruising these boards, you will see that, on occasion, power supply, FW jack and screen issues have been problems. These units get old (knock on wood!). It's not like the 20 year guarantee on a Bryston power amp.

The other reason for the Hybrid is that FW support is hanging on for its life at Apple. Intel hardware supports USB and any Mac that supports Thunderbolt supports only part of the FW spec—and that through an adapter. The Hybrid is forwards compatible by comparison.

So, while buying new or used is up to you, my recommendation is that a used mkIII Hybrid is the better buy even if it costs more up front.

As for myself, I don't do this for a living but it does generate income. For that reason. I will buy new when the time comes. I am not you, however.

[apanacci]

I have a MKIII Hybrid and 8Pre. I do not daisy chain them.The MKIII goes into my computer via FW. The 8Pre is connected to the MKIII via lightpipe.

[nk_e]

I have an 828mk3 with two 828mk2s attached via ADAT. It works great. I'd recommend looking at MOTU's tech support note on how to set it up as it is possible to get it to "work" while setting up the sync incorrectly (which causes weird occasional problems). And you need to get things set up in CueMix correctly, but once done its solid.

I actually have an additional 828mk2 and for years I used to daisy chain the units together in pairs then run the two "master" units into individual FireWire ports on my Mac. That worked well too.

I also own an 8pre, but that unit has been nothing but trouble for me with the famous "Christmas tree lights" problem.

[HCMarkus]

If your 828mkII was still alive, I'd also recommend using the litepipe (ADAT) port to add inputs instead of using multiple interfaces. This is clearly the most reliable method to add i/o. One nice advantage is all channels show up in a single CueMix window. Also, latency may be reduced.

You can get a simple 8 channel expander made by PreSonus or Focusrite for a very reasonable price. Best to clock via WordClock

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/DigiMaxD8

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/DigiMaxDP88

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/OctoPre2dy

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/OctoPre2

Alas, your Ultrlite does not offer litepipe digital i/o. I just checked.

FYI, used 828mkIIs are running about $200 these days on EBay. I bought a pristine one a while back, anticipating the day the one I have owned since 2004 dies.

[nk_e]

More of an FYI. I've run up against the hard limit on using multiple devices. I have an 828Mk3 Hybrid and 2 Motu 828Mk2. The two Mk2s are going into the 828 Mk3 via ADATs A and B. They are synchronized via ADAT with the 828Mk3. (This means I have all ADAT inputs and outputs active on the 3 units.)

Unfortunately, I am using the MIDI jacks on the back of the 828Mk2s. I say that because that means I need to also have them connected into the system via FW or the MIDI ports will not show up. So I have the 828Mk3 connected via FW800 to my macpro. I have one mk2 daisy chained into the mk3. And I have the other mk2 connected via FW directlyn to the macpro. (Daisy chaining it to the other mk2 was unreliable.)

I ran into a bandwidth issue when I added a third and final 828mk2. I connected it via FW to the mk2 with a direct connection to the macpro. It showed up in CueMix, but I got an "insufficient bandwidth" warning. That warning would go away if I turned off the ADAT outs from the 828Mk3. That meant I still got the inputs of the 828mk2s via ADAT, but turning of the ADAT outs from the 828mk3 meant that the 828Mk2s connected to ADAT were no longer receiving sync.

I should mention at this point that all of these were configured as an aggregate device in AMS. (Other non DP DAWs required this to use them.)

I experimented with syncing all units first via the CueMix drop down and then via "Drift Correction" in AMS. Both seemed to work fine, but I started to get this weird extremely high pitched but low volume whine every so often through my speakers. Weird things were happening on the 828 displays randomly when I heard this sound.

At this point, I have now connected each unit to the macpro via a separate FW cable. The weird whine has disappeared. There is still the bandwidth issue however as the macpro appears to have just one FW bus*, so I am synchronizing everything via the MAS utility drop down. Long story short (too late): It appears everything is working.

So there is no question here. I just posted the experience in the hope that it is helpful.

Cheers.

* - I also have a Sonnet FW 800 card installed. (That creates a second FW bus via PCI does it not?) However, the units are not picked up when I plug them into that card.

[mikehalloran]

...At this point, I have now connected each unit to the macpro via a separate FW cable. The weird whine has disappeared. There is still the bandwidth issue however as the macpro appears to have just one FW bus*, so I am synchronizing everything via the MAS utility drop down. Long story short (too late): It appears everything is working.

So there is no question here. I just posted the experience in the hope that it is helpful.

Cheers.

* - I also have a Sonnet FW 800 card installed. (That creates a second FW bus via PCI does it not?) However, the units are not picked up when I plug them into that card.

Interesting. The Sonnet should see your 828. Does it use a TI chip set or another? Does Sonnet require a driver?

I don't know of any Mac that has more than one FW bus no matter how many ports.

One thing I found on my G4, G5 and iMac is that a FW hub will crash the bus when used with my 828mkII. It doesn't matter the brand—or rather I never found one where it worked. Restoring the bus requires resetting the PRAM/NV RAM.

[terrybritton]

I finally gave up on trying to daisychain my Ultralite mk3 hybrid via FW into my 828 mk3 hybrid, as I could not get it to remain reliably stable (that is, that very high pitched whine and the crazy meter's stuff simply could not be defeated entirely.)

Oddly, I seemed to get some stability for a while when using DeOxit cleaner on the cables and FW jacks, which seemed to solve the problem -- until it didn't. I have to imagine that the bandwidth is also a strain on the connections somehow.

Now when I want to add more inputs via the Ultralite, I simply bring them in either via S/PDIF or just use up an analog input on the 828 (which is, of course, always rock solid).

I suspect that any little earth tremor was throwing off some signal path in those FW connectors which subsequently knocked out the timing synchronizing the two units. That is only my best guess, though. After months of fighting with it, I've given up. I have several nice, shiny new, expensive FW cables here now, though!

Terry

[nk_e]

...At this point, I have now connected each unit to the macpro via a separate FW cable. The weird whine has disappeared. There is still the bandwidth issue however as the macpro appears to have just one FW bus*, so I am synchronizing everything via the MAS utility drop down. Long story short (too late): It appears everything is working.

So there is no question here. I just posted the experience in the hope that it is helpful.

Cheers.

* - I also have a Sonnet FW 800 card installed. (That creates a second FW bus via PCI does it not?) However, the units are not picked up when I plug them into that card.

Interesting. The Sonnet should see your 828. Does it use a TI chip set or another? Does Sonnet require a driver?

I don't know of any Mac that has more than one FW bus no matter how many ports.

One thing I found on my G4, G5 and iMac is that a FW hub will crash the bus when used with my 828mkII. It doesn't matter the brand—or rather I never found one where it worked. Restoring the bus requires resetting the PRAM/NV RAM.

The sonnet does not require a driver. I am not sure of the chipset though....