MOTU 24I/O System to MOTU AVB Upgrade on 2012 Mac Pro

[monkey man]

I don't think that's worded correctly. I think it's 64 total.

That's what I figured, Doug. Thank you. I was hoping, given that MOTU has already had to change stuff on the site's AVB blurb recently, that more care would have been taken and that the claim was therefore correct. Oh well. I lose again!

Then there's USB Type C,

Is this the same as USB 3.1? If so, it is on its way. Apple announced the first Mac to support it recently.

Actually, Apple has little to do with it. It's Intel. But they are finally releasing the chip sets necessary. Don't let the ".1" fool you. USB 3.1 is a huge upgrade in the spec.

Yeah, I've heard about 3.1, Mike, but as my brother has been a almost impossible to contact of late (took 10 weeks to respond to my messages last time), I've not yet been able to follow this up with him.

FWIMBW, I seem to recall his saying something about the plug's being able to fit the socket either way up, and that it was more secure than a TB one. That's all I've got, mate.

Either way, the MOTU units only support TB and USB2. I don't know what'd be involved in updating the line to 3.1, whether it'd be firmware upgrades, hardware modifications or a combination thereof. From my perspective, a USB3/3.1 option that could be hooked up to a USB3/3.1 PCI card on my machine would of course be welcome.

Failing this, I'll still be left hankerin'. Embarrassingly, I'm still Jonesin' for those converters, and am starting to wonder whether or not opting for an entry-level nMP could be feasible. I've no idea about or experience with "breakout" hard drive and USB3 enclosures, both of which I'd need in this case. I actually logged on tonight to research this but quickly became suffocated by both my ignorance and the "webbiness" of my adventure. I had a feeling it would come to that, based on past experiences.

Should I start a thread for dummies where someone such as you comes to the rescue, spelling out the basic principles involved and perhaps suggests the simplest, best-bang-for-the-buck options? Er... what a silly question! Creating it now...

http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtop ... =4&t=59532

[monkey man]

All the interfaces support 64/64 channels in/out over USB with the latest 1.2.0 firmware.

This is only at 1x rates. Assuming these are simultaneous streams and not just available channels, they've done it with USB2. Scary for me, as I love my PCI-based AudioWire system, but it's still great news.

... I still haven't seen any comment about direct hardware playthrough for DP. Anything there?

We're actively thinking about ways of adding a similar feature to DP for the Avb line. The architecture is so different compared to the CueMix FX boxes, though, that it's a little tricky and takes some doing.

The final hurdle. Essential for me.

[EMRR]

Yep

[monkey man]

Tim?

I really do feel for you, Doug; I'm fully cognizant of your ongoing angst with regard to the DHP matter.

I'll be posting some questions for you soon about this USB2 thing's being a viable replacement for my AudioWire system, along with an invitation for speculation as to possible work-arounds should DHP not come to fruition.

In the mean time, I'll keep all twenty fingers crossed that MOTU pulls the programming off to make this DHP thing happen for you... and possibly me.

[monkey man]

Well, I asked Mr. Miller over at BeerGutz. I enquired about DHP on both our behalves too, Doug.

Still not clear as to whether or not any active outputs (I'll be using perhaps eight) will rob me of inputs. IOW, are the USB drivers capable of handling 64 ins at the same time as 64 outs?

Oh heck, I might as well go and ask. I haven't been flamed yet, so so far so good...

[EMRR]

I never run in USB mode, so I can't really address that for you.

With the Monitor 8 added to the picture, everything works well through AVB except that the AVB slave freezes in boot mode if both are powered up together. Others are not having that problem.

The #1 AVB stream tip from me will be taking the time to custom label every single route in such a way that it shows legibly, even in DP where it's likely abbreviated. I went with names like 'Mon8 1 / 16A 17', which abbreviates to something like 'Mon...17' in DP so I can see it's in or out 17 clearly there, and the full name in the AVB app shows hierarchy.

Yes, Direct Hardware Playthrough would still make life so much simpler. I don't have an intern to run a second mix while tracking, and it distracts from other background work I used to do. Such as: you get recorded glitches when you open plug windows in 'mon through efx' mode while tracking, not so in DHP mode. You can't anticipate even basic plug settings as new tracks are coming in, you can't even open windows to look at them.

[bayswater]

Hang on... I thought this 64 channels was a total I/O count and that one was limited to 32 in each direction, an update (via a more efficient driver) from the previous limitation of 24 ins and 24 outs.

According to the MOTU site, it's 64 both ways:

Q: Can I use MOTU AVB interfaces on my older Mac that is running OS 10.6 or 10.7 and does not have Thunderbolt ports?

A: Yes (although this is not officially supported. Official support requires 10.8 or later.) USB can be used to connect a Mac to the AVB system for up to 64 channels of input and 64 channels of output (at 44.1 or 48 kHz).
Thoughts, anyone?

128 channels at 24/48 is within the bandwidth limit for USB 2, even the practical bandwidth, but it must be pretty difficult to get a stable low latency glitch free flow at that rate, otherwise you'd think it would have been done long ago. Maybe simply putting the question to MOTU would resolve it. 64 channels in both directions at the same time? (You'd need one of those liquid cooled USB cables).

[monkey man]

Ha ha, yeah Stoivo.

I only need the ins and perhaps a dozen outs, as it's mainly monitoring and then rendering all the MIDI hardware outs that demand high input counts.

I posed the question as to whether there's any chance one flavour could be traded for a commensurate increase in the other (outs for ins, etc.) to Mr. Miller over at SmeerFluff, and am awaiting a response. I don't want to rush out and sell (interest has already been expressed) a bunch of synths only to find that MOTU presents this option down the track. There's also the theoretical possibility of an overall I/O-count increase too, I s'pose; I asked about that too.

I'll just have to wait and see. Hope you're OK, bud.

I never run in USB mode, so I can't really address that for you.

Hey, you can't help that. Thank you for the thought at any rate, Doug.

With the Monitor 8 added to the picture, everything works well through AVB except that the AVB slave freezes in boot mode if both are powered up together. Others are not having that problem.

I read that with dismay over at SleezePutz. Seems you're the only one experiencing this. There'll probably be a driver fix that inadvertently corrects the situation... with any luck.

The #1 AVB stream tip from me will be taking the time to custom label every single route in such a way that it shows legibly, even in DP where it's likely abbreviated. I went with names like 'Mon8 1 / 16A 17', which abbreviates to something like 'Mon...17' in DP so I can see it's in or out 17 clearly there, and the full name in the AVB app shows hierarchy.

Ha! I've always done this with my AudioWire systems anyway. CueMix especially presented quite a challenge where clear labelling of my synth outputs was concerned. If you've, say, two synths of the same type, each with multiple outs, the mere act of labelling one the "A" unit and the other the "B" is enough to screw legibility up really nicely. Took a lot of experimentation.

I don't mind the challenge. It's kinda fun(!)

Yes, Direct Hardware Playthrough would still make life so much simpler. I don't have an intern to run a second mix while tracking, and it distracts from other background work I used to do. Such as: you get recorded glitches when you open plug windows in 'mon through efx' mode while tracking, not so in DHP mode. You can't anticipate even basic plug settings as new tracks are coming in, you can't even open windows to look at them.

I hear you, Doug, and I well remember your plight. Just plain sux. Fingers still crossed for the both of us as far as DHP is concerned.

I seem to recall Mr. Miller's having said that it was trickier to implement on the AVB system 'cause of the overall complexity of the routing system, but I noted at the time to myself that he really only implied it might take some effort on their parts and not that it was impossible. My guess is they're working on something and I hope that any changes to DP's functionality to accommodate it will appear in DP9. Sound good? Makes sense to me, bro'.

Here's hopin'...