Stuck Notes with Yosemite and MOTU MIDI Driver

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Discussion related to installation, configuration and use of MOTU hardware such as MIDI interfaces, audio interfaces, etc. for Mac OSX
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jotff
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Stuck Notes with Yosemite and MOTU MIDI Driver

Post by jotff »

am continually experiencing random stuck and missing MIDI notes with every DAW i use with my 2 different MTPAVs (USB) and my Micro Lite MIDI interfaces since updating to MacOS 10.10.x (yosemite). the stuck and missing notes occur with DAWs whether i'm playing thru the interfaces in real time or whether i'm playing a sequence/scene. the DAWs i'm using are Digital Performer 8.07 and Ableton Live Standard 9.1.7.

this occurs on two separate machines - Mac Pro (Late 2013 - trashcan, 3.5Gh 6-core, 32gb) and on my MacBook Pro (Retina, 15in, Mid 2014, 2.8Gh, 16gb), both machines are running 10.10.1. this issue did not occur on my previous machines or previous versions of sw and operating systems.

to verify this, i connected the same 3 interfaces to my old MacPro (2008 - 10.9.5) and to my old MacBookPro (early 2011 - 10.9.5) and played a USB kybd controller, an external MIDI keyboard, and sequences. not once did a stuck note or missing note event occur. i then connected the interfaces one at a time to the new mac pro and the new macbook pro, and stuck notes occurred randomly with all 3 interfaces. i repeated the checkout using different MIDI and USB cables to verify it's not a cable issue.

i then installed a clean version of Yosemite 10.10 onto a blank freshly initialized 500gb external hard drive, installed the latest MOTU audio and MIDI drivers, and installed both DP 8.07 and Ableton Live Standard 9.1.7 and no other programs, plugins or extensions. i booted up my destop mac pro with the new install, and tested this clean install with both programs against all 3 interfaces, being driven by an external MIDI keyboard, a usb keyboard controller, and clean sequences in both programs. the result was random stuck and missing notes with each configuration.

i then installed the latest Yosemite update from the App store - 10.10.1, and re-ran this test against the new OS. the result was the same - random stuck and missing MIDI notes with each configuration.

it appears that theres some kind of issue with Yosemite and the MIDI driver, to the point that i cannot drive an external MIDI device thru a DAW reliably.

incidently, this issue does not occur with virtual instruments/plugins in either DAW; not when playing sequences, not when playing them with a USB controller, and not when playing them with an external MIDI keyboard. the problem only occurs when trying to drive external MIDI gear inside a DAW via MIDI either with a sequence or with an external device. also, this has to be a MIDI driver issue and not an interface issue because if i use the internal routing capability of the MTPAV to route MIDI data from one port to another (without utilizing the DAW MIDI capability), i have no issues with stuck notes.

for the final tests, i installed the virtual keyboard program VMPK and used this to drive the external MIDI instruments to see if the problem exists with a virtual keyboard input source - it does not; i had no stuck or missing notes when using VMPK as the driving input to external MIDI devices through the DAWs. i then connected an external MIDI synth to the MIDI in/out port on my 828mkII. i drove the synth via MIDI, thru both DAWs with a USB controller, sequences, and via another external MIDI device connected to its MIDI IN port and had no issues with stuck/missing notes. and finally, i installed the latest driver for the M-Audio Midisport Uno 1x1 USB MIDI interface. i ran both DAWs with this unit and i drove the synth via MIDI, thru both DAWs with a USB controller, sequences, and via another external MIDI device connected to its MIDI IN port and had no issues with stuck/missing notes. it appears the problem is exclusive to the MOTU MIDI drivers and dedicated MOTU MIDI interfaces.
The Arsenal: MacPro 6core 3.5 (2013), MacBook Pro 2.8 (2014), DP 8.07, MTPAVUSB, 828mkII, Ultalite mk3, Micro lite, various hardware and virtual instruments.
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Re: Stuck Notes with Yosemite and MOTU MIDI Driver

Post by dosuna11 »

Stuck MIDI notes have been a problem for a long while. I personally think it is an OS issue. Wish I had a fix for you but it is always so random.
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Re: Stuck Notes with Yosemite and MOTU MIDI Driver

Post by jotff »

this is the response i got back from MOTU today regarding this issue...

"Thanks for writing. This is a known issue with USB3 ports and MOTU MIDI interfaces on newer Macs. We are currently investigating the issue with Apple, but for the time being, using a powered USB2 hub to connect the interface to the computer will typically resolve issues of this nature."
The Arsenal: MacPro 6core 3.5 (2013), MacBook Pro 2.8 (2014), DP 8.07, MTPAVUSB, 828mkII, Ultalite mk3, Micro lite, various hardware and virtual instruments.
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Re: Stuck Notes with Yosemite and MOTU MIDI Driver

Post by James Steele »

jotff wrote:this is the response i got back from MOTU today regarding this issue...

"Thanks for writing. This is a known issue with USB3 ports and MOTU MIDI interfaces on newer Macs. We are currently investigating the issue with Apple, but for the time being, using a powered USB2 hub to connect the interface to the computer will typically resolve issues of this nature."
I'd heard of that. I guess I'm glad I have USB 2 ports on mine. :)
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Re: Stuck Notes with Yosemite and MOTU MIDI Driver

Post by James Steele »

It looks like MOTU Tech Support is right on this issue. I hadn't used external MIDI in a while, but worked with it last night on my Mac running latest Yosemite and MOTU MIDI drivers with my MOTU MTP/AV USB (with old MTP II daisychained off its serial port) and it seemed to work swimmingly. It must be a USB3 issue. MOTU would probably need to make a ROM upgrade on the MTP/AV perhaps to fix this? Given the dwindling numbers of users working with outboard sound modules, even IF that's the fix (and I don't know), it may not be forthcoming if a hub will solve the problem. Can probably buy a cheap hub for less than what MOTU would have to charge for a new ROM. :(
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Re: Stuck Notes with Yosemite and MOTU MIDI Driver

Post by jotff »

i plan on stopping by their booth at the NAMM some time this week and inquiring as to just exactly what the plan really is going forward.
The Arsenal: MacPro 6core 3.5 (2013), MacBook Pro 2.8 (2014), DP 8.07, MTPAVUSB, 828mkII, Ultalite mk3, Micro lite, various hardware and virtual instruments.
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Re: Stuck Notes with Yosemite and MOTU MIDI Driver

Post by chemie »

have the same problem...
using USB2 hub it's OK
wrote to Motu 1 week ago, but no answer in so far
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Stuck Notes with Yosemite and MOTU MIDI Driver

Post by James Steele »

So have you tried using the USB2 hub? If that makes it work, then seems like that's not too painful a fix.
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Re: Stuck Notes with Yosemite and MOTU MIDI Driver

Post by chemie »

did it! everything ok now :)
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Re: Stuck Notes with Yosemite and MOTU MIDI Driver

Post by mikehalloran »

MOTU would probably need to make a ROM upgrade on the MTP/AV perhaps to fix this
I am guessing that the boat has sailed on this. MOTU ran out of the 2.0.1 firmware chips in 2012 required for the MTP/AV USB to run on Intel Macs and later PCs. I got one of the last ones before they took them off the web site.

It might not be a firmware issue. It could be the USB circuit controlled by a different chip. Unless someone with a lot of time wants to research the issue and figure out exactly what it is and the part number of a chip that makes these USB 2/3 compatible, the best answer is going to be, "a powered USB 2 hub normally fixes this".

Has anyone tried replacing the C2032 battery to see if that has any effect?
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Re: Stuck Notes with Yosemite and MOTU MIDI Driver

Post by Michael Canavan »

I just ran into this!
Re-arranged the studio and during the process for clever and stuck the MTP/AV into the USB3 card I have in a PCIe slot. Massive stuck notes on a third party USB3 card. This thread pointed towards the bug! You guys saved me hours of troubleshooting for sure! 8)

As far as having to use a USB2 hub, that's certainly an easy work around for users with more modern macs etc. It's definitely not going to slow down communication with the mac.
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Re: Stuck Notes with Yosemite and MOTU MIDI Driver

Post by jotff »

i talked with MOTU at the NAMM a few weeks ago and they said that they're actively pursuing a fix, but that it involves changes by both MOTU as well as Apple. so, it's coming but dont expect it any time soon. i have a good friend who works tech support at Apple, and they've got higher priorities.
The Arsenal: MacPro 6core 3.5 (2013), MacBook Pro 2.8 (2014), DP 8.07, MTPAVUSB, 828mkII, Ultalite mk3, Micro lite, various hardware and virtual instruments.
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Re: Stuck Notes with Yosemite and MOTU MIDI Driver

Post by jotff »

I received a TechLinks message today from MOTU. A public beta of their driver is available for download here...

serve.motu.com/testing/MIDI/150107/MOTU%20MIDI%20Installer%2064820.zip
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Re: Stuck Notes with Yosemite and MOTU MIDI Driver

Post by toodamnhip »

Will stuck notes never go away????
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Re: Stuck Notes with Yosemite and MOTU MIDI Driver

Post by James Steele »

I don't know. Will they?
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