new I/O, USB 2.0 v. Firewire 400?

[williemyers]

h'lo all,
I'm in the market for a new audio interface this year and I'm wondering...using the old rule-of-thumb that firewire (400) was always preferable to USB (albeit, 1.0), does that old reasoning still apply, now with USB 2.0 so widely available?

[kgdrum]

I haven't used USB for a I/O but from what I've heard if it has good drivers USB2 should be fine.
I use a RME FF800 and have always used it at RMEs recommendation via FW400.
They only recommend FW800 for people using multiple units,according to RME, 800 will not have any advantage otherwise.
Likewise users who have started to use RMEs newer USB I/O's report they work as well as the FW cards.
IMO companies that are known for good Interfaces with good driver support will make cards that work well with either standard.
I'd get from a company with a good rep with support & drivers.
I'd avoid a budget oriented device or low end manufacture that's not known for their support.
Good luck.

[Prime Mover]

I used to think that Firewire would be inherently better than USB... but then I did some bandwidth calculations and realized how ridiculous that is! A single 48kHz/24bit digital audio stream is about 144K/sec. That means you can get about 7 channels per MB! Theoretically, you should be able to get about 10 streams in USB1.1 without any bottleneck. Basically... audio is a pushover.

However, bandwidth alone isn't everything. USB is kind of a cheapskate, it makes the CPU do all of the encoding, which uses up clock cycles and introduces a slight bit of latency (maybe a millisecond or two). Firewire plays nice, it has it's own chip that does the grunt work.

But really, it's all about drivers. The biggest hangup is driver efficiency. You can have a really fast stream with crappy drivers that introduce a lot of latency, this can happen with either USB or Firewire. For instance, I gotta admit that MOTUs MIDI drivers seem to be pretty bad. My 8pre and 828 introduce quite a bit of latency to the MIDI transfer. I have a cheapo roland USB interface that does circles around them. However, it may just be due to the fact that the 828 and 8pre are processing about 100x the data (audio streams) then the Roland!

[williemyers]

hey guys, thanks very much for those recommendations. as I said, I've always gone by the old "FW's prefferable to USB" advise, but with mfr.s like RME & Apogee producing USB I/O's, I figured perhaps that old rule-of-thumb was just that...."old" (like me!)

[Prime Mover]

Yeah, I think the main reason was because USB is so much more reliant on good drivers. Firewire is very universal, relying little on makeshift programming. It may have taken companies a while to figure out how to make really solid USB drives, but from what I've heard, they're here.

[williemyers]

....really, it's all about drivers. The biggest hangup is driver efficiency. You can have a really fast stream with crappy drivers that introduce a lot of latency, this can happen with either USB or Firewire. ...

Eric, apologies for being so late in responding to your reply, but thanks for writing it! I've long suspected that Digidesign's CoreAudio driver(s) have been at the heart of a number of problems that I've had over the years. Part of my reason to get a new interface is to get away from the Digi CoreAudio driver.
So, I'd love to get yours - - and all other's - - opinions on what companies you believe make the best drivers for their audio interfaces?
again many thanks

[MIDI Life Crisis]

However... I've experienced issues with USB and FW devices from time to time and the problem has more than once proven to be buss powered v. self-powered (usually wall wart) devices. Buss power seems to create pops and glitches, but when switching to self-powered the glitches go away.

So while the bandwidth may well be sufficient, when choosing an audio interface I'd suggest making sure it can be self-powered and not only buss powered.

Now from my completely ignorant standpoint, I always preferred FW over USB. My currently preferred device is a MOTU Track 16 which has USB and FW, but my second choice (and a very good unit) is a Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 DSP and it is ONLY FW. In both cases self-powering the device eliminates pops.

[williemyers]

...But really, it's all about drivers.

hey Eric and all, just a follow-up.
I did get a new audio I/O, a Presonus StudioFire Project (8 I/O). It's working brilliantly, but the most impressive difference from my old Digi 002R/Digi CoreAudioManager system, is the *elimination* of that Digi CoreAudioManager (CAM) from my overall system! Things are *SOOOO* much happier! I've always had the occasional nightmares with CAM, particularly with things like Quicktime, iTunes, Mail, etc. But, as I had a Digi I/O and need PTools, I was stuck with using CAM. Now, with PTools 10, no more need for CAM and the removal of it - and the use of the PreSonus stuff - has been a sea change for me. Absolutely *NO* problems with Quicktime, iTunes, Mail, etc., as well as no problems with PTools or DP! Happy, happy, happy!
So to any/all of you out there still using CAM, I'd strongly advise looking for a new I/O that won't need it....

[Tomas E]

However... I've experienced issues with USB and FW devices from time to time and the problem has more than once proven to be buss powered v. self-powered (usually wall wart) devices. Buss power seems to create pops and glitches, but when switching to self-powered the glitches go away.

So while the bandwidth may well be sufficient, when choosing an audio interface I'd suggest making sure it can be self-powered and not only buss powered.

If I have an AC adapter, will the audio interface then automatically choose the AC power instead of stealing power from my MacBook Pro via FW?

[mikehalloran]

If I have an AC adapter, will the audio interface then automatically choose the AC power instead of stealing power from my MacBook Pro via FW?

Most (all?) will.

The problem with FW is that full support of the spec went away with the PPC. Intel never supported it.

Apple supported much of the spec when the Intel CPU came along via a kludge but it pretty much died when Thunderbolt came on the scene. TB-FW adapters support very little of the FW spec and the 7W of buss power isn't enough for anything. At least one older MOTU interface cannot work without native FW support–the original 8pre cannot be used with the TB-FW adapter, not even when externally powered.