Controling CueMix Volume by MIDI?

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Discussion related to installation, configuration and use of MOTU hardware such as MIDI interfaces, audio interfaces, etc. for Mac OSX
PhilPrice
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Re: Controling CueMix Volume by MIDI?

Post by PhilPrice »

Re: Previous post.

Sorted. I now have BCF2000 and Ipad working cuemix together. Faders on all devices move faders on all others as they should. Really cool. Can now wander round at sound check with the Ipad. Cuemix doesnt upate the mac screen until a fader is touched but you knew that anyway I'm sure.

This is quite simple to achieve. Get the Behringer working. Then I connected the Ipad to the network and started AC-7 in Logic mode. I routed the network MIDI on the mac to and from the midisport Port A and patched it to the back of the BCF2000 with MIDI cables from port A. No software routing to the software mackie controller. Set the BCF to USB mode 4 in Logic mode and it works.

What I can't control with either control surface is EQ, +48v, reverb, dynamics talk, listen, mono/stereo and the monitor section but these are OK using the mac. A real talk button would be nice but without drastic programming of the BCF in native mode, assuming its implemented in cuemix, its not going to happen.

For me thats control surfaces solved. :D
Klaus
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Re: Controling CueMix Volume by MIDI?

Post by Klaus »

PhilPrice wrote:Here goes. First post. I use an 896hd. I can confirm it is possible to control Cuemix wirelessly with an ipad or iphone using AC-7. I have it working in front of me now. It needs a 2 port usb MIDI port with patch cables looping MIDI in to MIDI out but it works flawlessly. The whole process is a bit involved. I used an old midsport 2x2. I dont see why any other 2 port MIDI wont work.

1) Open Audio MIDI Setup on mac.
2) Open MIDI window
3) Double click on Network to open window.
4) Make sure there is a ticked session in the session window. If not create one.
5) Make sure Ipad/phone is on same wireless network as the mac. If not open WiFi on the mac and click create network and connect ipad to it.
6) Start AC-7 on Ipad. Set it to Logic Mode. It should appear in the directory box in Audio MIDI Setup window.
7) Hightlight it and click connect. Move a fader on the ipad and some red lines should appear in the latency window. If so youre connected.

All the above is standard for AC-7.

8.) connect midisport to USB. Patch B out to A in and A out to B in.
9) In the Live routings box set both send and receive to Midisport port B.
10) Close the MIDI network setup window.
11) In MIDI Studio window click add device. Double click it and Name it Mackie Control and set the Manufacturer to Mackie and the model to Mackie Control. Close it.
12) Connect Midisport port A to Mackie control By dragging between the 4 triangles on the 2 devices.
13) Open Cuemix, enable control surfaces, Check Mackie Control on Midisport Port A is configured. Tick Application follows control Surface.

14) Enjoy. Faders, Names, Banks, Pan , flip for output levels on all mixes. All faders work for all mixes. 24*8 channels on your iphone!

But only if you have done it all right!

Just for fun I have mixed a live gig on my iphone with a 6 piece rock band using 18 inputs. A bit fiddly - The Ipad is much easier. 6 Stereo in ear mixes too although I didnt do those from the phone. Just FOH. The labels are too small to keep track of things. You could do it on an Ipad though.

Cool but its looks less impressive than using my Mackie 24.4.2!

Edit.

By the way, I have a BCF2000. It is no problem to get all the faders working on all the mixes as well as trim, pan, mute, solo, -20db pad and phase. I use the BCF to do FOH, 6 stereo IEM mixes and a pair of wedges. There is no need to touch the Mac. Use the logic emulation. No problem with fader 1 -24db then. Flip to OUT to adjust the main out fader for each mix and also select which mix to play with. Select a mix using one of the lower bank of 8 buttons. Flip back to adjust the faders for that mix. If anyone still struggling with this let me know. I suppose a video guide would be easiest. I suppose I might get round to doing one on youtube.

Let me know if it works for you. :D

Currently working on getting BCF2000 and Ipad working at the same time. Not there yet.
What trim are you controlling, and how, with a BCF2000 ?

Klaus
PhilPrice
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Re: Controling CueMix Volume by MIDI?

Post by PhilPrice »

Hi Klaus,

This applies to an 896Mk3 HD. Previous versions may not have software trim.

In cuemix click the 'inputs' tab. Trim is there. Top pot, aka input gain. If youve got your BCF connected up in logic mode, LC showing in the LED display and the faders working cuemix push the edit button so the led in it goes off. This toggles the rotary controls from pan to trim. The LEDS around the rotary on the BCF reflect the position of the pot in cuemix - even when you've not got the inputs visible in cuemix. Press the top of the rotary control to toggle the phase switch.

Cheers.

Phil
Klaus
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Re: Controling CueMix Volume by MIDI?

Post by Klaus »

PhilPrice wrote:Hi Klaus,

This applies to an 896Mk3 HD. Previous versions may not have software trim.

In cuemix click the 'inputs' tab. Trim is there. Top pot, aka input gain. If youve got your BCF connected up in logic mode, LC showing in the LED display and the faders working cuemix push the edit button so the led in it goes off. This toggles the rotary controls from pan to trim. The LEDS around the rotary on the BCF reflect the position of the pot in cuemix - even when you've not got the inputs visible in cuemix. Press the top of the rotary control to toggle the phase switch.

Cheers.

Phil
You mean 896mk3H ( like Hybrid ), the HD confused me...
Thanks for the tip re: Logic mode...
I am in MC mode...does it work in this mode too ?

Klaus
PhilPrice
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Re: Controling CueMix Volume by MIDI?

Post by PhilPrice »

Yeah the hybrid. Sorry. Lazy typing. I cant get it to work properly in MC mode. After each bank switch fader one drops to -24db.

This doesnt happen in Logic mode. No other mode works properly. BabyHUI is a disaster.

Its gotta be in logic mode. Instructions to switch to logic mode here:

http://www.behringerdownload.de/BCF2000 ... _modes.pdf
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bayswater
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Re: Controling CueMix Volume by MIDI?

Post by bayswater »

Not asking you to mess up your configuration. It looks amazing. But if you did a factory reset on the BCF are you reasonably sure it would work the same?
2018 Mini i7 32G 10.14.6, DP 11.3, Mixbus 9, Logic 10.5, Scarlett 18i8
PhilPrice
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Re: Controling CueMix Volume by MIDI?

Post by PhilPrice »

I'm 100% certain a reset wouldn't affect it. The BCF2000 emulations are hard coded and not editable. No reset or progamming will change them. A firmware update is the only way of altering them.
Cheers
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bayswater
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Re: Controling CueMix Volume by MIDI?

Post by bayswater »

OK Thanks. I was just wondering if you had made any changes. It seemed odd to me that a MOTU product would be more compatible with a Logic control emulation than with the Mackie emulation they mention in their support material.
2018 Mini i7 32G 10.14.6, DP 11.3, Mixbus 9, Logic 10.5, Scarlett 18i8
Klaus
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Re: Controling CueMix Volume by MIDI?

Post by Klaus »

PhilPrice wrote:Yeah the hybrid. Sorry. Lazy typing. I cant get it to work properly in MC mode. After each bank switch fader one drops to -24db.

This doesnt happen in Logic mode. No other mode works properly. BabyHUI is a disaster.

Its gotta be in logic mode. Instructions to switch to logic mode here:

http://www.behringerdownload.de/BCF2000 ... _modes.pdf
I'm almost certain, that the ch 1 fader problem is not in MC-C mode
since I use MC-C mode on my BCF2000s

http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtop ... 30#p353086" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

But then, I'm not using the BCF anymore to control Cuemix FX, but to control Digital Performer, and DP's input monitoring taps into the Cuemix FX 'commands', but with the
level bug described here :

http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtop ... =1&t=44574" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Well, things evolve, bugs don't get fixed, other bugs arise...

Take care

Klaus
johnsbaker
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Re: Controling CueMix Volume by MIDI?

Post by johnsbaker »

Well, its obvious to me after reading through this thread and struggling with getting decent MIDI control of CueMix FX, that its a major pain in the arse at best, and even after you have some success you can only control a small percentage of CueMix parameters.

On the other hand, with nearly all of my other recording and audio software I can quickly configure most any off the shelf MIDI controller to control most any function!

MOTU continues to update CueMix FX, but no changes to the laughable "MIDI control." Why?

Beyond just being able to control one Mix configuration, why can't we, for example, set up controllers to control EQ on an output pair? That would really be useful for live performance. No one wants to wade through menus and creens to tweak a low pass Q setting during live performance. We want hardware controllers that will communicate with the layers of CueMix FX.

Perhaps I'm whining, but I see such untapped potential in some otherwise good software.
Klaus
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Re: Controling CueMix Volume by MIDI?

Post by Klaus »

johnsbaker wrote:Well, its obvious to me after reading through this thread and struggling with getting decent MIDI control of CueMix FX, that its a major pain in the arse at best, and even after you have some success you can only control a small percentage of CueMix parameters.

On the other hand, with nearly all of my other recording and audio software I can quickly configure most any off the shelf MIDI controller to control most any function!

MOTU continues to update CueMix FX, but no changes to the laughable "MIDI control." Why?

Beyond just being able to control one Mix configuration, why can't we, for example, set up controllers to control EQ on an output pair? That would really be useful for live performance. No one wants to wade through menus and creens to tweak a low pass Q setting during live performance. We want hardware controllers that will communicate with the layers of CueMix FX.

Perhaps I'm whining, but I see such untapped potential in some otherwise good software.
You *CAN* control all output mixes of Cuemix FX...
BUT
iTunes will choke ( hickups ) when moving a fader in the BCF2000 ( MC-C mode )

..... :banghead:

Klaus
Last edited by Klaus on Sun Mar 11, 2012 7:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
johnsbaker
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Re: Controling CueMix Volume by MIDI?

Post by johnsbaker »

Klaus --

iTunes getting confused is not an issue for me, as I only have CueMix FX and Apple MainStage running. I am a solo performer and often need to do very quick mix adjusts while I am playing. Specifically for my setup, I would like to control CueMix FX from a single controller (a Korg nanokontrol) without having to page through "scenes" (which are like separate pages of CC#s or Note #s on the nanokontrol). More specifically, I would like to control:

1) volume on the first two channels of output levels on Mix 1
2) mutes on the first two channels of Mix 2
3) EQ settings for Main L/R outputs (just a couple of frequency/dB/Q setups to control room problems)

I have achieved #1 by figuring out which CC#s to send from the nanokontrol, and that is working well. Can I also achieve #2 from the same "scene" on my nanokontrol (I haven't figured out which CC#s will do this). And, #3 would be great if possible, but that is something I could do from a separate "scene" before a performance if necessary.

So, can I at least do #1 and #2 from the same "scene" Any help would be appreciated.
Klaus
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Re: Controling CueMix Volume by MIDI?

Post by Klaus »

Sorry, I'm not familiar with the nanokontrol...

As far as I know, eq can't be controlled, but may be others that use ( or have used ) a real Mackie Control Universal can chime in...
I'm on BCF2000

Best

Klaus
johnsbaker
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Re: Controling CueMix Volume by MIDI?

Post by johnsbaker »

That's exactly what I mean about CueMix FX MIDI control being inflexible and limiting: its designed for Mackie control only, so you can use some stuff like a Behringer 2000 with emulation. But even then, you can only control limited parameters (eg, not eq, compression, reverb, etc).

Most current retail DAW , audio, and plug-in software can be used with any MIDI controller that can send CC# data, and it can be used to control most or all parameters.

CueMix FX MIDI control: Limited. Inflexible.

I have communicated this to MOTU ad nauseous, but no joy.

:deadhorse:
TinenTech
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Re: Controling CueMix Volume by MIDI?

Post by TinenTech »

As I understand it, the Mackie Control/HUI protocol's MIDI implementation is to "blame" for some of this difficulty. To fit all the possible fader controls and indicators back and forth, Mackie used a unique implementation over the MIDI port, much more data than Continuous Controllers use. The Continuous Controller method doesn't have the resolution that Mackie wanted to have to control all the Pro Tools parameters it was designed for. For example, 128 different levels aren't enough for volume control...when you'd move a fader or knob you'd get "zipper noise". Each fader on a Mackie Control has either 1024 or 2048 levels of resolution, if memory serves. Multiply that times 8 physical channel faders, that can control many more channels...(96?)...that's a lot of data.

For this reason, if you have a Mackie Extender in addition to a Mackie Control, it has to have its own separate MIDI port/cable connection. Remember, it doesn't just control the faders, sends, EQs and plugin parameters, it monitors them. If you make a change on screen, position/indication data has to be sent back to the fader interface. If it was a USB or Ethernet controller like today, it would have been no problem, but MIDI is what they had.

I have a Mackie Control (old) directly connected to an (old) MOTU Traveller's MIDI IN port, and with the latest version of CueMix, it works very well: faders, pans, layers. I was surprised they don't document it better in the manual...the implementation shows a lot of attention to detail.

I only wish for two things:

1. The ability to change CueMix presets (snapshots) via MIDI Program Change messages. As it stands, when I'm going from preset to preset on stage, I have to have my MacBook and manually choose the preset.

2. The ability to control CueMix from an iPad. If you can control DP faders from iPad, why not CueMix faders? Given the number of "iPad mixers" at NAMM, I'm sure they're considering this or working on it, and it's likely no more work will be done on the Mackie Control type protocol. But it's not bad as it is.
Last edited by TinenTech on Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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