Controling CueMix Volume by MIDI?

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Discussion related to installation, configuration and use of MOTU hardware such as MIDI interfaces, audio interfaces, etc. for Mac OSX
Klaus
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Re: Controling CueMix Volume by MIDI?

Post by Klaus »

bayswater wrote:
stephentayler wrote:Does this help? It only took one Google search.... it came out top of the search.....
DOH !! Yes, thanks. I've had a BCF2000 since they came out, downloaded everything I could find, and had completely forgotten about this document. At the time, I was unable to use this info to figure out how to get my BCF to do much more than volume and pan. Others obviously have done it, so I guess the problem is me.
There are pics of the different modes... in the manual
http://www.behringerdownload.de/BCF2000 ... _modes.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
the knobs / faders / switches have multiple functions,
there is a shift... switch

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Controling CueMix Volume by MIDI?

Post by James Steele »

myssinglynk wrote:Hey James Steele, any chance you've heard of that TouchOSC app for iPad you mentioned being used with CueMix? Or that it can work in a non-wireless configuration? TYVM!
Firstly, please don't refer to me as "the great James Steele" like in your other post. I don't know how it was intended, but it bothered me. I'd read it as sarcasm normally.

As for Touch OSC on iPad, I saw it controlling CueMix at NAMM. It was probably a version of CueMix that hasn't been released yet with OSC support. I asked the MOTU people about it and they had created a profile/template for TouchOSC that they will probably make available when the OSC-enabled CueMix is. As for wireless--why not?
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Re: Controling CueMix Volume by MIDI?

Post by myssinglynk »

bayswater wrote:
myssinglynk wrote:Do I have to be an expert baker?
well ...., yes, you do !
By this reasoning, a software company could say "this program will work with OSX" even if this is not true (because, let's say, for some computery reason, it will only work with OSX if it's on a Hackintosh, not a genuine Mac) and it's up to the consumer to figure this out. Boo. :vomit:

Can you at least concede that most consumers of home-studio gear do not know enough to second guess (nor should they have to) a company's claims about their products' function or compatibility? I try very hard (harder than most I believe) to RTFM on both sides before a purchase, and I feel I had every right to expect compatibility.

I know, I know. :deadhorse:

Dave from MotU still has not gotten back to me about his own experience with the Tascam (which he said was in his queue to play with next), but I am not hopeful - neither was he. I'll be sure to post his findings, free of rant, for us all to read.

And for the record, I feel that MotU genuinely listens, understands, and sympathizes with CueMix users like me who have found compatibility to be a severe limiting factor. I am hoping that they do pay some attention to addressing this issue instead of just forging ahead with the next big thing.

BTW, I'm having difficulty figuring out whether I'm supposed to be able to record to DP PRE-FX while running the show POST-FX. Anyone know of how to switch this?
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Re: Controling CueMix Volume by MIDI?

Post by myssinglynk »

James Steele wrote:Firstly, please don't refer to me as "the great James Steele" like in your other post. I don't know how it was intended, but it bothered me. I'd read it as sarcasm normally.
As you are the site admin, I meant it as cheerful respect. But I can see how it could have been taken sarcastically. I was simply recognizing that I had the head honcho directly responding to me. My apologies. I do often forget that no one can hear the tone and inflection of my inner voice.

And thanks for the tip about NAMM. I'll see if Magic Dave has any further info on this or other touch-tech apps.
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Re: Controling CueMix Volume by MIDI?

Post by Klaus »

myssinglynk wrote:
bayswater wrote:
myssinglynk wrote:Do I have to be an expert baker?
well ...., yes, you do !
By this reasoning, a software company could say "this program will work with OSX" even if this is not true (because, let's say, for some computery reason, it will only work with OSX if it's on a Hackintosh, not a genuine Mac) and it's up to the consumer to figure this out. Boo. :vomit:

Can you at least concede that most consumers of home-studio gear do not know enough to second guess (nor should they have to) a company's claims about their products' function or compatibility? I try very hard (harder than most I believe) to RTFM on both sides before a purchase, and I feel I had every right to expect compatibility.

I know, I know. :deadhorse:

Dave from MotU still has not gotten back to me about his own experience with the Tascam (which he said was in his queue to play with next), but I am not hopeful - neither was he. I'll be sure to post his findings, free of rant, for us all to read.

And for the record, I feel that MotU genuinely listens, understands, and sympathizes with CueMix users like me who have found compatibility to be a severe limiting factor. I am hoping that they do pay some attention to addressing this issue instead of just forging ahead with the next big thing.

BTW, I'm having difficulty figuring out whether I'm supposed to be able to record to DP PRE-FX while running the show POST-FX. Anyone know of how to switch this?
No switch as of yet...

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Re: Controling CueMix Volume by MIDI?

Post by James Steele »

myssinglynk wrote:
James Steele wrote:Firstly, please don't refer to me as "the great James Steele" like in your other post. I don't know how it was intended, but it bothered me. I'd read it as sarcasm normally.
As you are the site admin, I meant it as cheerful respect. But I can see how it could have been taken sarcastically. I was simply recognizing that I had the head honcho directly responding to me. My apologies. I do often forget that no one can hear the tone and inflection of my inner voice.

And thanks for the tip about NAMM. I'll see if Magic Dave has any further info on this or other touch-tech apps.
No problem. Had a rough nite. Thought my HD192 had given up the ghost. Fortunately it was just a fuse inside it.

Don't know what to tell you about controlling CueMix. Some people got it to work and I know that what I shared isn't going to help you NOW. But in the future, it looks like there is a good solution on the horizon. From what programmers have told me, the Mackie protocol is really a pain and that MOTU building in direct support for OSC into CueMix (like they did with DP, thus making the DP control iPhone app possible) will allow for far better control in the future.

Also, picture having a DP based studio where you can have 2-3 iPads on mic-stands using iKlip, etc. next to each musician and they can adjust their own levels simultaneously. Okay... that might be a BAD idea... but you know what I mean. :)
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Re: Controling CueMix Volume by MIDI?

Post by bayswater »

myssinglynk wrote:Can you at least concede that most consumers of home-studio gear do not know enough to second guess (nor should they have to) a company's claims about their products' function or compatibility?
It would be nice, but not realistic. The current state of the technology and business isn't at that point. A lot of equipment and software simply doesn't do what you what it says.

Consider USB. You're supposed to be able to run 127 devices on one USB. Would anyone actually take it for granted this would actually work on the basis of vendors' claim that their products were compliant with USB specs?

Something as simple as a DP update to make it compatible with Lion: This board is full of messages asking whether it actually works, looking for someone who has actually tried it before proceeding with the update.
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Re: Controling CueMix Volume by MIDI?

Post by fishmonkey »

for those struggling with the Mackie Control protocol with other devices, this MIDI map helps somewhat:

http://web.archive.org/web/200801260936 ... /MCMap.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and to be clear, i do agree that dealing with Mackie Control emulation is largely a PITA. i have wasted many many hours messing with it in the past...

however, it really is the case that most control surface manufacturers do not really provide proper Mackie Control emulation. whilst it is relatively easy to get some of the MC functionality to work with a bunch of MIDI Control Change and Note commands, full support is another matter entirely.
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Re: Controling CueMix Volume by MIDI?

Post by bayswater »

bayswater wrote:
stephentayler wrote:Does this help? It only took one Google search.... it came out top of the search.....
DOH !! Yes, thanks. I've had a BCF2000 since they came out, downloaded everything I could find, and had completely forgotten about this document. At the time, I was unable to use this info to figure out how to get my BCF to do much more than volume and pan. Others obviously have done it, so I guess the problem is me.
I've downloaded all I can find on the unit (BTW, found a more up to date see Guide at http://www.behringerdownload.de/BCR2000 ... ng_ENG.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. I reinstalled the 1.10 firmware update, and tried the Mackie Control and HUI emulations. The HUI appears better if only because the solos are awkward in the Mackie version.

Please, another three questions for experienced BCF 2000 users: Using either emulation, the buttons to move the next or previous 8 tracks also affect the track selector, so only 8 tracks appear in the DP mixer. Is there a way around this?

Maybe more ambitious, is there a way to get the BCF to move to the next or previous 8 tracks that are currently showing in the DP mixer?

Are there any customized presets out there that work better with DP than those supplied by Behringer?
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Re: Controling CueMix Volume by MIDI?

Post by Klaus »

Please, another three questions for experienced BCF 2000 users: Using either emulation, the buttons to move the next or previous 8 tracks also affect the track selector, so only 8 tracks appear in the DP mixer. Is there a way around this?
I thought to have read that poping out the mixer window of the consolidated window helps, not sure...
Maybe more ambitious, is there a way to get the BCF to move to the next or previous 8 tracks that are currently showing in the DP mixer?
You could advance one channel at a time by using shift + advance until you are where you want, from there, 8 up/down

Best

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Re: Controling CueMix Volume by MIDI?

Post by bayswater »

Thanks Klaus. Thinking about it more, it would make more sense to group the tracks into folders that can be reordered quickly so those needed in the mixer are sequentially grouped (assuming I can get the BCF to stop changing the track selector view).
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Re: Controling CueMix Volume by MIDI?

Post by johnsbaker »

I love my MOTU Ultralite. I love the CueMix software. I HATE the lack of MIDI control flexibility in CueMix! Yeah, I could dust off my ancient BCF2000 to run the danged software, but c'mon! Its 2012 already. I don't have room on my desk. MOTU, just upgrade the CueMix software so it can "learn" MIDI control data like all of the other software released in the last five years.

That would be nice, and very much appreciated.

Thank you.
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Re: Controling CueMix Volume by MIDI?

Post by fishmonkey »

johnsbaker wrote:MOTU, just upgrade the CueMix software so it can "learn" MIDI control data like all of the other software released in the last five years.
it's not that simple though, is it? every host has it's own way of dealing with MIDI control surfaces, and there are compromises made everywhere you look.

the reason the Mackie Control protocol is often supported is because it is the most common protocol that supports controller feedback, higher resolution fader control, relative encoders, and a way of sharing controllers between hosts.

MIDI learn won't solve those problems, although it would enable basic clunky control over the CueMix interface.
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Re: Controling CueMix Volume by MIDI?

Post by johnsbaker »

Just enabling CueMix to receive and respond to MIDI control messages from the system (eg AudioMIDI Setup on Mac) in a straightforward, non-Mackie way would be a HUGE leap in flexibility. (I'm not talking about pre-made maps in DAWs for specific control surfaces, I'm talking about generalized control: slide a fader up or down, and respond in kind....toggle a switch and return in kind.)

It really is not rocket science, or even toaster-oven science!
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Re: Controling CueMix Volume by MIDI?

Post by PhilPrice »

Here goes. First post. I use an 896hd. I can confirm it is possible to control Cuemix wirelessly with an ipad or iphone using AC-7. I have it working in front of me now. It needs a 2 port usb MIDI port with patch cables looping MIDI in to MIDI out but it works flawlessly. The whole process is a bit involved. I used an old midsport 2x2. I dont see why any other 2 port MIDI wont work.

1) Open Audio MIDI Setup on mac.
2) Open MIDI window
3) Double click on Network to open window.
4) Make sure there is a ticked session in the session window. If not create one.
5) Make sure Ipad/phone is on same wireless network as the mac. If not open WiFi on the mac and click create network and connect ipad to it.
6) Start AC-7 on Ipad. Set it to Logic Mode. It should appear in the directory box in Audio MIDI Setup window.
7) Hightlight it and click connect. Move a fader on the ipad and some red lines should appear in the latency window. If so youre connected.

All the above is standard for AC-7.

8.) connect midisport to USB. Patch B out to A in and A out to B in.
9) In the Live routings box set both send and receive to Midisport port B.
10) Close the MIDI network setup window.
11) In MIDI Studio window click add device. Double click it and Name it Mackie Control and set the Manufacturer to Mackie and the model to Mackie Control. Close it.
12) Connect Midisport port A to Mackie control By dragging between the 4 triangles on the 2 devices.
13) Open Cuemix, enable control surfaces, Check Mackie Control on Midisport Port A is configured. Tick Application follows control Surface.

14) Enjoy. Faders, Names, Banks, Pan , flip for output levels on all mixes. All faders work for all mixes. 24*8 channels on your iphone!

But only if you have done it all right!

Just for fun I have mixed a live gig on my iphone with a 6 piece rock band using 18 inputs. A bit fiddly - The Ipad is much easier. 6 Stereo in ear mixes too although I didnt do those from the phone. Just FOH. The labels are too small to keep track of things. You could do it on an Ipad though.

Cool but its looks less impressive than using my Mackie 24.4.2!

Edit.

By the way, I have a BCF2000. It is no problem to get all the faders working on all the mixes as well as trim, pan, mute, solo, -20db pad and phase. I use the BCF to do FOH, 6 stereo IEM mixes and a pair of wedges. There is no need to touch the Mac. Use the logic emulation. No problem with fader 1 -24db then. Flip to OUT to adjust the main out fader for each mix and also select which mix to play with. Select a mix using one of the lower bank of 8 buttons. Flip back to adjust the faders for that mix. If anyone still struggling with this let me know. I suppose a video guide would be easiest. I suppose I might get round to doing one on youtube.

Let me know if it works for you. :D

Currently working on getting BCF2000 and Ipad working at the same time. Not there yet.
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