Dorico - An Ongoing Journey

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Elektroakoustika
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Dorico - An Ongoing Journey

Post by Elektroakoustika »

Just thought I'd start a thread posting my experiences with Dorico. I am a long-time Finale user and still use it for many of my projects. But Steinberg had a ridiculous deal for educational crossgrade pricing (which was great for me as I am both a music teacher and Finale user).

I knew jumping in that Dorico would not be ready for all of my projects on day one, but I've been ready to ditch Finale for years now and I despise Sibelius, so I thought Dorico would be worth a shot. I've also been paying close attention to the forums and the Dorico team is definitely making a concentrated effort to update the program with features that the masses want.

My goal for this thread is to post updates on my journey with Dorico so those interested can also get some first-hand experience on my journey. My background is that I am a self-published concert music composer (contemporary classical) that uses DP to compose, then notates that music in Finale. My latest project is a string orchestra work that I decided to notate entirely in Dorico.

Note: I do not use playback in Finale or Dorico at all. As I mentioned before, I compose almost entirely in DP and then copy that over to my notation program. I prefer to work this way

Good Things:
- I like the interface a lot. It's well thought-out and very intelligent.
- The overall workflow is very nice and quick. Using key commands to enter dynamics, articulations, and expressive text is miles beyond what Finale uses. I find myself not having to switch tools like I would in Finale and rather just enter several things using keyboard shortcuts and smart text entries.
- The customization on the way Dorico lays out the music is one of the most expansive things I've seen. The nice thing about this is that if I see something I don't like, I can change it in the settings and it will do it the way I want it for every project afterwards. For example, I found the staff-lines to be a bit thick and the noteheads to be a bit skinny. Went into the settings and Bam, fixed them to what I liked.
- Dorico does a very good job of making sure things don't collide. It's like a Sibelius system, but way smarter. And miles beyond Finale.
- The interface is much faster smoother and faster than Finale. It's weird being able to scroll so smoothly through a project when coming from Finale!
- You can customize any and every keyboard shortcut. Don't like the way something is laid out? Just go into the settings and change it.
- The way pages are laid out is very intelligent. Dorico uses "frames" to lay out things like titles, composer, etc. You can edit the frames easily to make sure they are consistent across your scores and parts.
- I find that I have to do about 400% ( :D ) less tweaking than Finale. Dorico just knows how to lay stuff out right.
- Tuplets: Tuplets are way easier in Dorico. You just press ";" and enter the ratio you want (based on the note you have selected) and it creates that tuplet.

Not-So-Good Things:
- The Learning Curve: Holy moly, after using Finale for 16 years, Dorico is a whole bucket of new. Everything is intuitive in Dorico, but, in some instances, very different than Finale. Just gotta re-program this brain.
- Working with larger scores: If I'm writing for concert band or full orchestra, I'm still using Finale. Not being able to add large time signatures or make one staff break into multiple printed parts (i.e. two flute parts on one stave) is not workable right now. You can have multiple voices (aka Finale layers) on one stave, but having them split into two separate printed parts doesn't work yet. The Dorico team says they're working on this though and will probably update it within the next year with something they think will be huge game changer. And Finale wasn't great at this anyways.
- Note-Entry: While not bad, its more Sibelius-y than Finale-y. I use a MIDI keyboard and use simple entry in Finale but in Dorico I have to select things like dots before I enter a note. Just a bit different. Editing notes after entry, however, it a lot easier in Dorico than Finale.
- Figuring out which tool is where: There are three primary modes in Dorico: Setup, Write, and Engrave. Setup is fairly straightforward, but Write and Engrave are a new concept to me. They pretty much separate the composing process from the engraving process. But things like moving one measure from one system to the next has to be done in Engraving mode. Now this doesn't mess anything up in Write mode, and is actually fairly quick to do, but just a little bit more effort than Finale (where I could just select a bar and press the down arrow to shift that measure).
- Dongle - Yes, Dorico uses Steinberg's standard e-Licenser dongle. If you have it installed on one computer, it'll use the software, but this is a pain in the butt if I want to work on the go. Now, I don't do a lot of notation on the road so its a bit a of mute point for me, but its still something that a lot of people have trouble with.
- Other small missing features: Things like string harmonics can't be done easily and don't look quite right. When printing, the built-in print menu doesn't show my custom paper sizes (I can get around this using macOS's standard print dialog). And there are other small things here and there.

Overall, I really like Dorico. I think once some of the larger score elements are there I'll start working in it more. For now, I'm reserving it for small projects like this string orchestra one. I also think that the Dorico team is dedicated to making this the best program out there and seem to be trying really hard to make it better and better. Their upcoming 1.1 update is packed full of more updates than you've seen in the last 5 years of Finale updates. And with all of the shakeup and lackluster updates in Finale, I'm ready to jump ship when the Dorico boat sails in full.

I'll keep updating this thread every few months to update people on the happenings of switching to the dark side. Hope it helps!
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Re: Dorico - An Ongoing Journey

Post by MIDI Life Crisis »

Thanks for the post. I am coming at it from exactly the same place. I've sat at F2014.5 but lacking a movie window. F25 is not useful for me.

If/when Dorico gets a movie window I'll drop some coin on Steinberg. Until then, I'll be sure to keep an eye on this thread. :)
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Re: Dorico - An Ongoing Journey

Post by mikehalloran »

I couldn't figure out how to make it work one-handed, an absolute requirement for me.

As it is, I still do note entry in Encore and export to Finale—it's fastest for me. I might give Dorico another look once the next update comes out.

I've recently taken advantage of crossgrades to Overture ($129) and Notion ($79) just so I wouldn't be bound by the 30-day eval period. Each has their strengths but have deficiencies as well. Perhaps both will get better after MusicXML 3.1 is released this Summer.

What I'd really like is an update to Encore that supported a later version of .xml export than 1.x. That way, I could do more than simple note entry before exporting it to an app with much better layout.
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Re: Dorico - An Ongoing Journey

Post by stubbsonic »

Ugh. I really don't like that dongle business. Too bad about that. I know it's a picky detail, but I've managed to avoid any kind of dongle since my Atari 1040ST.
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Re: Dorico - An Ongoing Journey

Post by mikehalloran »

stubbsonic wrote:Ugh. I really don't like that dongle business. Too bad about that. I know it's a picky detail, but I've managed to avoid any kind of dongle since my Atari 1040ST.
Really? Even iLok?

iLok isn't bad (anymore) and fewer companies require you actually use the dongle if installed on only one computer and a few will allow two.

The Steinberg e-licenser is the same way if only installed on one computer but the idea of another hardware dongle for a laptop is a turn-off for me as well.

I no longer use a laptop, however, opting for an iPad. Notion has an iPad app that's pretty good and keeps getting better. Only $15.99 and you can export as MusicXML through email or DropBox (I think iTunes as well). There are in-app purchases if you want sound libraries but anything I do is going to be exported so that I can finish in something else.
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Re: Dorico - An Ongoing Journey

Post by stubbsonic »

mikehalloran wrote: Really? Even iLok?

iLok isn't bad (anymore) and fewer companies require you actually use the dongle if installed on only one computer and a few will allow two.

The Steinberg e-licenser is the same way if only installed on one computer but the idea of another hardware dongle for a laptop is a turn-off for me as well.
That's good to know. I just assumed iLok & other dongles were just gonna live on some hub. Live & learn.
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Re: Dorico - An Ongoing Journey

Post by mikehalloran »

Yea, read carefully nowadays. Most are now saying something like "iLok account required" and mention that the dongle isn't. I see that PSP now offers this option. The license downloads into your account and you decide if it is stored on your computer or iLok.
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Re: Dorico - An Ongoing Journey

Post by mhschmieder »

I think you can also switch it from your dongle to your computer later on if you want. I haven't tried this yet, but as I am now upwards of 325 iLok licenses, I might soon. But for Steinberg stuff I think it is all eLicenser, which also allows that option SOMETIMES. My license is almost full as VSL never consolidates licenses.
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Re: Dorico - An Ongoing Journey

Post by mhschmieder »

Very helpful review. Too bad I couldn't get their website to accept my email request for getting a demo license to try out; that turned me off as my problem report also went unanswered. I'd hate to buy it blind, have it not work, and still have no vendor support.

I like the description of the three basic modes for Dorico as those are sort of the ways I like to shift hats as well. I think Dorico and I might get along well, if I can ever get the website to let me in.
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Re: Dorico - An Ongoing Journey

Post by Elektroakoustika »

mhschmieder wrote:Very helpful review. Too bad I couldn't get their website to accept my email request for getting a demo license to try out; that turned me off as my problem report also went unanswered. I'd hate to buy it blind, have it not work, and still have no vendor support.
I'd save that demo license until the program is a little more full-featured. I expect within a year or so Dorico will have a bunch of new updates that will make it more worthwhile for a broad range of users.

Until then, I'll keep everyone updated as they update the program. I have a lot of faith in the Dorico team as they are very hands-on in the forums and really seem to be listening to their customer-base. A lot of people want "their feature" right now, but the team is obviously taking their time with a lot of the features to make sure they do them right. That said, they are innovating/updating at a pace that is 10 times the rate Finale and Sibelius are updating.

If the team keeps making strides like they are right now, I can full expect myself to switch over to Dorico full-time.
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Re: Dorico - An Ongoing Journey

Post by Elektroakoustika »

Update #1!!!

So I've been engraving my latest composition over the last week or so, and I have to say, I really love the workflow of Dorico. It just feels like a more modern program and there are so many things that work so well in it. And the amount of tweaking you can do in the preferences panel is perfect for whenever I want to change a small setting (like how crescendos go over barlines) and then I never have to worry about it ever again.

Also, the "magnetic layout" that prevents objects from colliding is extremely well done. I have several elements that go into each bar (rehearsal marks, bar numbers, text, playing techniques, etc) and Dorico simply lays them out exactly where they should be and makes sure nothing collides. And the way it does Page Layout is so much less problematic than Finale.

While the learning curve is significant, I have really mastered a lot of the techniques in the last week or so. And there is a continuity to the tools in Dorico that is missing in both Finale & Sibelius.

To add onto things, the Dorico team released a HUGE update today. I recommend watching this video https://youtu.be/4N36345LAtY to see the level of dedication this team has to making an incredible tool for composers and publishers. Really impressed by this thing.

Now of course it doesn't do everything (even after the latest update), but the Dorico team is making monumental strides at a break-neck pace. Any doubts that I had about the future of this program are pretty much laid to rest. I cannot wait to separate myself from Finale full time!
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Re: Dorico - An Ongoing Journey

Post by sdemott »

v1.1 is out & supports chord symbols (yay!). I'm testing it for a 2nd time (they've been generous with the trials as they know it's not fully baked yet). So far, so good.

Another stepping stone on the journey through music notation apps. If I go with Dorico this will be my 4th notation app since my original purchase of Encore in 1991 or so, then to Finale in 1999 then Sibelius since 2003.

And note: you do not need a dongle. You can just use the eLicenser software to license the software locally. The dongle is only necessary if you have multiple installs and jump from one system to another. Same with iLok these days. You can forgo the dongle completely if you just attach the license to a single computer.
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Re: Dorico - An Ongoing Journey

Post by mhschmieder »

My recent experience has taught me how much better dongles are for seamless transition between computers -- especially if one of them died and can't quickly/readily/easily be referenced during the new computer setup.

It is nice to have the soft license option available to people who don't want the dongle though.

The 1.1 update to Dorico sounds promising. Chord symbols are great for lead sheets.
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Re: Dorico - An Ongoing Journey

Post by Nigel Keay »

I've just completed a first project using Dorico, a new duo just a few pages long, but has probably been a good way to start getting familiar with how Dorico works. Changing time signature en route while composing seems a breeze. I needed to modify and older project I'd done with Sibelius (a string duo) so imported everything via .xml and was impressed with how little info needed tweaking - I'd lost a few bow and tempo markings but otherwise had the score reconstituted relatively quickly.
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Re: Dorico - An Ongoing Journey

Post by mhschmieder »

Sounds like it's coming along quickly, for a new app. I imagine Yamaha is helping ensure there's adequate support for the product's progress, and they of course have their own excellent history with songwriter-driven tools (think of the QY700 sequencer, which I owned briefly until finding too many incompatibilities with DP and newer stuff, but I miss its dedicated buttons for notation).

Hmm, and thinking about that, I'm wondering if Steinberg/Yamaha will develop a hardware control surface for it. Wouldn't that be magnificent? No more mouse, or even trackpad!
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