MOTUnation.com

Very serious question. How do you feel about MOTU developing the next StaffPad for the iPad Pro?

I'm well aware that iOS is not OS X or Windows, and an A9 (or A10) is not an i5, but good developers find a way. Apple will need to improve iOS, so let's hope they do.

Looking at StaffPad on a well equipped Surface has me feeling like the technology/creative wall may be coming down.

I need a pen/paper, pen/tablet based system that will read my bad handwriting, convert it into vector based music notation on the spot and play my composition back using sophisticated VIs.

As a composer this has been my dream. After all these years I still feel anxiety when I switch from guitar or piano to a DAW. No matter how well my rig and template are tweaked, until I get the same feeling I get when playing a real instrument (for either performing or composing), I will forever feel held back.

Would you like to see MOTU enter into the iPad Pro stylus based music notation sweepstakes? I sure the hell would. MOTU does things right most of the time (look for an upcoming post where I compare working in DP, Cubase and Logic for a month each), and I'd like to see what they can do with this up and coming creative boon.

A MOTU OS X, Windows, iOS notation app can only benefit DP. Quickscribe isn't as bad as I thought after trying some of the competition's score editors. I feel strongly if DP were to have a nearly full featured, or linked to a full featured notation editor, it would only improve DP's already outstanding workflow.

I'm a little afraid that Steinberg is going to jump on a tablet based notation app quickly. And I'd hate to see MOTU lose any more marketshare.

So, how do you feel about MOTU developing the next StaffPad for the iPad Pro? Who do you trust to do this right? Finale? Sibelius? Steinberg? StaffPad for iOS (not gonna happen). MOTU?

Let me hear from you!

Steve

MOTU doesn't do notation as a main focus. Quickscribe is an able (but severely limited) notation feature in DP and not capable of moderate to advanced notation. The Notation Window in DP is also more of an orphan from past versions and hasn't received any updates for many years now.

Those two things combined bring me to the conclusion that MOTU is not a good candidate for developing a robust and widely useful notation app on any device. For them to do so would mean integration with DP (otherwise it really is akin to pissing in the wind given the competition).

I'd look to Finale or Sibelius for that, or hoping the existing StaffPad for MS Surface get ported to the iPad.

Not that I'm opposed to your desires. I would love to see MOTU include a great notation app in their line-up, both for mobile devices as well as on a desktop and/or included in DP. But until we see them move seriously in that direction, I just don't see a notation app as even a remote possibility for their future.



Thanks for posting!

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:MOTU doesn't do notation as a main focus. Quickscribe is an able (but severely limited) notation feature in DP and not capable of moderate to advanced notation. The Notation Window in DP is also more of an orphan from past versions and hasn't received any updates for many years now.

Those two things combined bring me to the conclusion that MOTU is not a good candidate for developing a robust and widely useful notation app on any device. For them to do so would mean integration with DP (otherwise it really is akin to pissing in the wind given the competition).

I'd look to Finale or Sibelius for that, or hoping the existing StaffPad for MS Surface get ported to the iPad.

Not that I'm opposed to your desires. I would love to see MOTU include a great notation app in their line-up, both for mobile devices as well as on a desktop and/or included in DP. But until we see them move seriously in that direction, I just don't see a notation app as even a remote possibility for their future.



Thanks for posting!

MLC - I've been using DP since v1.7. Actually when it was Performer. The Notation editor has never changed!

Regardless, why not MOTU? MOTU knows as well as anyone what a disappointment the notation app scene is. Finale isn't going to do it. Have you seen their current release? Avid probably won't do it. The StaffPad folks have basically said they don't want to deal with iOS. Reminds me of when Acid came out. PreSounus, I could see them doing something light but not right.

So maybe Steinberg. But that just gives them another reason to claim more market share away from DP.

Remember FreeStyle? MOTU has the resources to turn out a nice product ahead of it's time if they deemed it a priority.

Any company smart enough could steal the notation app market away in very little time. Whoever builds a cross platform, tablet and desktop notation app duo, and does it right would win the market. With all the mistakes the main companies keep making (people are still loyal to Finale - I hated it back in 1993), the market is wide open and ready to be had.

In a way MOTU is a bit like Apple. They rely on hardware to drive sales. It's too bad in a way because IMO, they have the best DAW and with the right planning and resources they could make the next great app. If StaffPad was cross-platform, I bet musicians and educators buying an iPad Pro would buy it just to have it. That and forScore.

I'm just really tired of what's currently available. So, I'm trying to make some noise.

I'm totally on your side with that. I make A LOT of noise over at Make Music's site and have made even more noise here about the notational aspects of DP, but it just doesn't seem to be a direction they are going in. Yeah, hardware... Can't be bootlegged.

If it was relatively easy and reasonably lucrative to develop a notation app, I would think someone would already have jumped on it. In fact, it is not that easy. A lot of resources from many companies have gone towards that end and there are still a lot of problems in the apps that are out there. Yes, I have F2014.5 running on my machine currently, but have yet to do a big project in it - only a few arrangements for small ensembles. I detest Sibelius (the app, not the composer...). Then again, I started with Dr. T on an Atari and a dot matrix printer waaaaaaay back when.Wow, has it been 30+ years already? And even before that, in 1977/78 I remember seeing a music "printing" program (pre-sequencing and MIDI days) and while things are light years ahead now, they still are quite buggy and unreliable.

Yes, I would strongly support MOTU efforts in that direction. I just don't see it happenin'

It's always hard to figure out what MOTU's priorities are. Right now, it seems to be hardware. But sooner or later they need to get into tablets, and maybe notation would be as good a place to start as any. I've tried a few iPad notation apps and didn't take to any of them.

(Freestyle was brilliant. Bring it back ! )

(Freestyle was brilliant. Bring it back ! )

Yes!

If it was relatively easy and reasonably lucrative to develop a notation app, I would think someone would already have jumped on it. In fact, it is not that easy.

Deems Taylor (December 22, 1885 – July 3, 1966) hit the nail on the head in the 1930s when he wrote that music is never written – it is drawn. Although he was speaking in the context of the development of music i. e. that it could not become complex until there was a way to communicate this, it applies to the development of notation software.

You have a complex set of instructions to draw the simplest music – make it complex and the code is extremely complicated. Anyone unclear on that concept need only look at LilyPond. Sure, it's free but… Yikes!

http://www.lilypond.org/text-input.html

I have four volumes of Deems Taylor's collected essays and radio talks. He disliked jazz, hated rock 'n roll... I can only imagine what he would think of notation software and making music on our computers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deems_Taylor

Do I want MOTU to develop notation apps? Not necessarily; I'd much prefer they simply support the notation apps they already developed (and subsequently orphaned)!!!!

On one hand, I think MOTU would have the vision and skills to do it justice-- especially if they consulted with US before they went to the drawing board. On the other hand, I'd rather see them get ALL of DP completely dialed in-- including adding just a few touches & tweaks to QuickScribe (slurs, and ability to insert measure spacing controls throughout, line-breaks and page breaks. Maybe even insert graphics.

Honestly, I'd rather MOTU make a MIDI-only sequencer for iPad.

I wish I new more about FreeStyle. I'd heard of it, but had never tried it. Looks intriguing.

I jumped on Notion for iOS in the beginning (when it was free). It was terrible so I ignored it for years. Well, nowadays it works and isn't half bad. You don't need Notion 6 as it can export the results via MusicXML and open in your notation app of choice. $14.99.

https://www.presonus.com/products/Notion-for-iOS

Notion 6 isn't that bad if you can stand the workflow (not I). The included VIs are head and shoulder above those included with anything else and it has a movie window. Crossgrade is $79 when I bought it a few months ago. Otherwise $149.
https://www.presonus.com/products/Notion

Please oh please just fix DP Control. Got it working today with every page except the mixer page. Just switching to that force quits DP Control. But heck. I've got transport control and that's something. Can also change chunks again and couldn't before.

I almost bought Mosaic way back, thinking it would eventually make the cut to OS X. It would have had a short life in my production work had I bought it.

Several on this forum did own the product back in OS9 days (I didn't have a home computer until a year after OS X came on-line), and loved it.

Not sure how much of that code base (or thought base) has made it into recent DP upgrades of Quickscribe.

I can chime in on this with some authority..............because I actually own StaffPad and have written scores with it already. Overall I love it - for many of the reasons other people have talked about here. It's a great marriage of the old and the new - back to the idea of pen and paper along with the ability to hear your projects with modern samples and overall ease of use. It really is possible to get in a flow while working.........I compose for wind symphony and orchestra and StaffPad handles large scores fine (working in Win 10 helps and I use a Surface Pro 4), the Boston Symphony samples are great. Can it replace Sibelius/Finale? Yes.........and no. If you're writing for your own group, not too worried about publishing or don't need a lot of features and options, StaffPad is wonderful. I've printed scores and given it to my students (band and orchestra) and they can read the printed parts fine. The export MP3 plays great and sounds great too. However - for publishing purposes and real editing capabilities, StaffPad falls short. To be fair, they've always marketed it this way - it's not designed to have the power features of a Sibelius. For example, you can't choose from a large palate of sounds - if you have a trumpet part (or parts) in your score, StaffPad gives you a trumpet sample - period. Little to no font adjustments, limited formatting features for printing - if you need to do real editing you export as a MusicXML file and open in Sibelius (good to great accuracy on the export but work to be done nevertheless). I understand the newest version of Notion (Notion 6) now features digital stylus input and it DOES have more features than StaffPad...........but have no idea how accurate the stylus input is. StaffPad's strength IS the ability to use a digital stylus with true efficiency and effectiveness - and once you are comfortable with StaffPad's optimum method of writing the notes/rests it really flows well (good news is that it's quick to learn and easy to do). So MOTU, if you're reading this................

It's entirely up to you if you choose to develop something like this....but why limit it to iOS? Windows is still the biggest platform out there, and StaffPad can always use a competitor! My suggestion regardless of your platform choice - focus on the pen experience FIRST. Lots of features are nice (and yes I'd like a more full featured version of StaffPad or something that you create), but if the pen experience is negative/frustrating (and trust me StaffPad still isn't perfect) the customer will abandon it - REGARDLESS of the other features. I've been drooling for StaffPad since 2014.........but I didn't want to jump it right away with the Win 8 version (too many stories of glitches). When they announced a totally updated version for Win 10, I gave in and did it. I'm glad I did, working with a digital pen is wonderful - but I also know that it's still a young app regarding this tech and it's potential. I'm convinced it can be done BETTER - whether this is a updated version of StaffPad in the future OR another company creating a competitive product no one knows yet. If you decide on iOS then I suggest it be AT LEAST as capable as StaffPad.........or it will be a disappointment to your target customer. I read that the development team for StaffPad focused only on Windows.......OSX still isn't touch capable and iOS didn't give them the power they needed to do the things they wanted - food for thought. I wish you success if you accept this quest to develop a superior app for digital stylus music notation.......just remember it requires a perfect blend of tradinnovation (tradition and innovation) to work.

Yes, I would like MOTU to improve the notation built into DP. I play most of my parts into the sequence on the keyboard, and would love to be able to produce better looking parts for my bands. I'd love to be able to do rhythm charts with slashes. Chord sensing, easier alignments. I'd love for MOTU to put more effort into the notation aspect of DP. My plugins are fine, I don't need another set of sounds, and don't want to have to waste the time exporting xml to another notation program and start all over learning a new interface. Thanks for asking.

Brian

NotateMe

https://www.neuratron.com/notateme.html

It works.

MOTU is simply not going to do this. while notation seemed to be related to sequencing, there’s a good reason only a handful of companies have released notation software. And even with that, no dedicated notation app is w/o some serious issues. It is equally a music and a graphics app, with graphics being the more intense aspect, as far as I can tell.

Besides that, MOTU hasn’t even updated the notation window in decades and limp along with that ‘other’ notation window.

Again, it’s just not gonna happen

I wonder if MOTU has gathered any data on how often people use the different features in DP. I.e., What percent of users print parts for players, or create scores, etc? What percentage take partial notation work to other notation programs after some fiddling in DP?

For me, if there was any possibility that MOTU would devote resources to improving QuickScribe, I'd be delighted about it.

However, if MOTU was to consider making a notation program for iOS; on one hand I'd be almost disappointed as that would cut into DP development and maintenance. Also, I'd be suspicious that any developer, including MOTU, would be able to make a workable and full-featured notation program for iOS. I loath touch-screens for some things, and I suspect this would be a drag.

I still reach for pencil and paper more than Finale. It's faster. (But that says more about my lack of Finale skills, than my excellent hand notation).