Quick music notation question...

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FMiguelez
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Quick music notation question...

Post by FMiguelez »

My Gardner Read Notation book must be stored somewhere in my house. I won't get to it until the weekend.

In the mean time, can any one tell me if it's acceptable to use whole notes instead of a dotted quarter note tied to a quarter note for a section that is written in 5/8 (as 3+2)?

Not that QuickScribe would allow me to do it, but I'm going to port this project to Finale 2012 (I haven't used Finale since my college days!).
Using the tied notation seems to bloat things unnecessarily. So is using whole notes (as if it were in 4/4) fine, or would it create confusion for a player?

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MIDI Life Crisis
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Re: Quick music notation question...

Post by MIDI Life Crisis »

I wouldn't do that except if the entire measure was empty and you're displaying a whole note rest. I never assume a player will instinctively understand "what I meant" and many players will call you on it. Why? Because it's incorrect.

That's what you get for writing in 5/8. Lol.
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Re: Quick music notation question...

Post by joelfriedman »

Also keep in mind that 5/8 is almost always broken down into 3+2 or 2+3 so you'd want to show that division especially if there are other staves/instruments/rhythms going on that may or may not match and if it's going to be conducted. I want to see 3+2 if that's what the conductor is beating.
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Re: Quick music notation question...

Post by FMiguelez »

Wow! It seems I managed to respond to you without editing or deleting your post :lol:
MIDI Life Crisis wrote:I wouldn't do that except if the entire measure was empty and you're displaying a whole note rest. I never assume a player will instinctively understand "what I meant" and many players will call you on it. Why? Because it's incorrect.
Thanks, Mike.
And you answered another un-asked question (about the rests for full 5/8 measures).

I know the Read book talks about this, but I couldn't remember if he recommended it or not. The last thing I want is to create unnecessary confusion; I like my scores crystal clear, so I'll stick with your recommendation and use the tie notation.

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:That's what you get for writing in 5/8. Lol.
I know! It's so annoying!

Then I have a section in 7/8, which brings me to...
joelfriedman wrote:Also keep in mind that 5/8 is almost always broken down into 3+2 or 2+3 so you'd want to show that division especially if there are other staves/instruments/rhythms going on that may or may not match and if it's going to be conducted. I want to see 3+2 if that's what the conductor is beating.
Agreed, Joel.

This is a solo piano piece (personal, not commercial project). I actually don't want any "shape accents" in the 5/8 or 7/8 sections. These are basically arpeggiated accompanying figures, but they should be played evenly, smoothly and legato, not emphasizing the implied 3+2 or 3+2+2 accents.

So, for that effect, would you guys, as performers, prefer to see the beams in groups of 5's or 7's (slurred), or is it easier on the eye to see the subdivisions even if they're not exercised?
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Re: Quick music notation question...

Post by MIDI Life Crisis »

I don't care how you phrase it or how you beam it, just make sure there are the right number of beats in the measure - with the exception of cadenzas or more "interpretive" scores (a la Geo. Crumb).
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Re: Quick music notation question...

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ps - even your most "personal" scores should be notated correctly if you want them to survive you (at least accurately representing your intentions).
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Re: Quick music notation question...

Post by stubbsonic »

I'd like to see the beam groupings just to help me keep track of where I am, even though they would not necessarily be "executed" as an phrasing thing.

I've also seen things where beaming groups just go ahead and go with what is obvious and heard. I.e., the LH might be doing strict meter stuff, while the RH plays a super-imposed pattern where the beam groups even cross the bar. I know it is not proper, but it certainly didn't bother me or confuse me when I encountered it.

On the other hand, there've been some tricky sections in an ensemble where I just decided to re-write the meters & bars just to make it make some sense to my ear-- it was still pretty messy, but it helped me not feel like my sense of "one" was totally opposing where the page's one was. Had to put in some points of reference for rehearsals.
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Re: Quick music notation question...

Post by MIDI Life Crisis »

I suppose the sense of "one" might be more important in some music and is to be avoided in others. Ok, I'm officially o/t. I like music that keeps the listener a little "off balance" as to where the downbeat is. Tchaikovsky was great at that.
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Re: Quick music notation question...

Post by stubbsonic »

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:I suppose the sense of "one" might be more important in some music and is to be avoided in others. Ok, I'm officially o/t. I like music that keeps the listener a little "off balance" as to where the downbeat is. Tchaikovsky was great at that.
Agree 100%
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Re: Quick music notation question...

Post by FMiguelez »

stubbsonic wrote:
MIDI Life Crisis wrote:I suppose the sense of "one" might be more important in some music and is to be avoided in others. Ok, I'm officially o/t. I like music that keeps the listener a little "off balance" as to where the downbeat is. Tchaikovsky was great at that.
Agree 100%
+1000

Generally, great music, as written by THE Masters, exhibits a great deal of writing "across the barline" to avoid that stagnant and square effect of constant and monotonous heavy downbeats (or strong parts of the beat).


Prokofiev, Beethoven, and even Mozart come immediately to mind. Oh, if only I could write as beautifully as them... [sigh] :boohoo:

I'm working on my piano sonata. It's being really fun, but I'm so rusty with formal notation!
Finale 2012 seems like a whole new program to me, and I find myself staring numbly at the screen like an idiot. It has changed so much since college (I was the "go to" guy for Finale-related stuff back then, and now I can hardly remember how to use the Mass Mover tool :roll: )
I REALLY need to RTFM and go through the tutorials.

BTW, I'm glad I stuck with Finale 2012 and not bothered with MLC's favorite 2014 version :mrgreen:
I didn't know things were that bad (I just read a few threads over there. Man! Things are not looking good for MakeMusic or its users!)
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