mixing for movie theatres

[4leafplanet]

hi, I'm doing something (finally) that will get a general release. Was just wondering if there's a difference when mixing-- and i guess i mean mostly eq-- for movie theatres? Any general rules of thumb?

thanks,
4Lp

[bdr]

Just my personal view and experience...hire a mixer that is familiar with soundtrack work, things like music under dialog etc, 5.1 etc. No general EQ rules. Mix it to be a great sounding piece of music and let the dubbing mixer place the music appropriately.

[HCMarkus]

Retain dynamics.

[4leafplanet]

both, good advice. i poked around more on the web after my post. This is something very complex i have no desire to get heavily into. I just want to be able to help police the sonic quality control in my area (music). The film will all be edited in a proper studio.

Forgot to mention i'm only doing the score. But want to help with creative use of foley as well. Found the bit about re-mixing for DVd etc. to be very interesting & a place i want to make sure doesn't get buggered.

So far, the only difference will be thinking twice before i use limiting & compression on instruments. Also the whole music Surround mix i will not spend a lot of time on & defer to the films sound man. Hopefully i will have time to educate myself in the mean time to basically understand the possibilities enough to express my music as i want in that area. And to really get a good nights sleep prior to the Dub Stage day. The last movie this director did, when i saw it in a theater, even i could tell parts where the music was not leveled right.

i'd be happy to hear any other broad stroke advice. Common sense is also a very good way to keep on track... it ain't always about voodoo.

cheers,
4Lp

[mikehalloran]

Deliver the best product you can. Then stand aside and let the process happen. Observe and don't criticize or you will not be invited to watch. This happens to all of us when our music is used in other's projects. If someone asks your opinion, do give it but be constructive. You are part of a collaborative process and someone else has the final word. It's very easy to get a reputation for being "difficult" when you thought you were just trying to help.

[Kubi]

Most things were covered here - main thing in my mind is keep dynamics!

1. Do not normalize, and no compressor on the mix buss(es) unless it's vital for the sound (i.e. a rock score). And even then err on the side of less.

2. You may already know and do this, but just in case: I'm assuming they want stems, stems are your friend! At the very least, split your mix into premixed stems of melodies, percussives, and layers/accompaniments. This way, if i.e. your triangles are getting into the way of dialog, they can lower just those and leave your luscious string chords at their original level.

And I agree with Mike - deliver great music in a great mix in the format they ask, then step back and let the director and dub engineer take over. If they're good they are going to make your contribution sound amazing (by tucking it into the film as an indistinguishable part of the whole), and if they are not it's going to sound bad no matter what you do.



Have fun!

[daniel.sneed]

Great posts! Thanks!

As I genereally mix high on reverbs, I would provide 3 dry stems (melodies, percussions, layers), and 3 others with reverb only (respective to the 3 dry stems, 100% wet, set at my final mix levels).
The dub guy may adjust each to fit the *general depth* of the film sound, and of course, dialogs and sound effects.

[4leafplanet]

thank you for the two more very good pieces of advice.

I will now be certain to group instrumentation in practical stems as i go along. This totally went by me, as i've never passed unfinished work on to other people before.

And my god, keeping my trap shut is certainly to be at the top of my brain. I'm used to doing things how i want... "collaborative process"... yes, i knew the director et. al will have me change around my stuff, no problem there, but chipping in my 2 cents worth when not appropriate is really something to keep in mind at all times. Especially outside my particular field of expertise.

Its incredible all the tech specialists they have when creating a film. Scripts, screen writer, camera, light, costume, make up, stunt coordinator, set design, set scouts, sound, film editor, continuity, just on down the line! It makes me understand why so much music is just average these days... with kids doing every aspect in-house. Traditional A&R like back in the day really could help make a good band release great work.

They start shooting in 2 weeks and wrap 25th Sept. at which point things will start to get hairy for me. For now its all just coming up with my ideas from the script & my own notes.

I haven't been at Motunation in a little while and this reminds me why i've always felt so fortunate this exists!

I'm happy for any other advise, inspiration...

cheers,
4Lp

[bdr]

Keep in mind Jerry Goldsmith said 'after the scoring stage, it's all downhill'.

I have generally found stems to be more helpful than not in that stuff I may not have written great can be saved, but it can give the option to filmmakers and others to mess with your cues.

[mikehalloran]

...it can give the option to filmmakers and others to mess with your cues.

and they will! That is part of the gig.

[dix]

Try to mix cues while listening, in context, to whatever production tracks are available. Instruments in a mix can often sound louder or quieter than expected once they're blended with sound effects and dialogue. Just mixing as you would a record (without background sound) isn't such a good idea. I've even gone so far as to create my own sfx mockups to mix to. Also consider the volume at which the cue will play. I often end up mixing the bass hotter, for instance, in cues that I know will play quietly. If I don't the lows get eaten up entirely by the BG sound. Creating stems will mitigate the need to get too wrapped up in contextual mixing, but you want your stems to be as close as possible to what you'd like the final to sound like.

[4leafplanet]

I did a 45 minute shortfilm a long time ago (the only one i've ever done), and boy did i learn then and there about people messing with my cues. Things got a little heated then because i wasn't really getting paid, and not only were they changing my stuff, but i had to make the time to do it!

Luckily my sound track went over really well in the reviews... and now 10 years later the same director has a 2.2 million dollar budget & asked me again. (Hopefully I'll get paid this time.) It's a great feeling to know i've moved forward and can be flexible with their wishes in regards to changes & not sink my battleship. Granted, back then i did so much strait-up audio recording the parts... i had to re-cut instruments for editing. Now i have VI's for the main structure & MIDI isn't the mystery it used to be.

The music comes easy for me, the tech part manageable, the hardest will be tippy-toeing thru the financial land mine of what's it worth. Luckily they came to me. Its the sort of free-lance situation I've absolutely no problem with; where i have to come up with everything first to show them... only from reading the script and their mood themes.

You know, usable mock-ups which are dynamite (!) and, can be pushed and pulled around. Then its "oh yes, you had the gig all along (ya right), lets get editing...". followed by still no talk about $ cause "we don't know how much you will be involved." Then its an effort to make one feel a part of the team (who all got contracts before the $ evaporated) and finally "we cant afford much...the budget is gone". What to do?

[HCMarkus]

License your work, don't do work for hire if they don't agree to pay from the start. That way, you can re-use your work in other venues/projects in the future.

And don't give them a share of your publishing unless they pay for it. TV and Foreign (non-USA) screenings will generate income for years if the project is a success.

[4leafplanet]

License your work, don't do work for hire if they don't agree to pay from the start. That way, you can re-use your work in other venues/projects in the future.

And don't give them a share of your publishing unless they pay for it. TV and Foreign (non-USA) screenings will generate income for years if the project is a success.

thanks for this advice! mucho appreciated!!

[MIDI Life Crisis]

There may well be instances when the PR and attention is worth signing off on some rights including broadcast up to buyouts. I think evaluating who us doing what with the project is an important consideration and repeated, well paid work can supersede and even surpass broadcast income, which is never assured.

Yes, be sure you're well compensated but don't underestimate the inherent "compensation" and value of professional visibility.