ScoreCleaner product for better converting MIDI to notation

by **mhschmieder** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:07 pm

Reviewed in SOS this month (I don't have an eSub anymore so can't read the full review, but am also linking to the product page):

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jul12/articles/score-cleaner.htm

http://scorecleaner.com/

This might be a game-changer, if the artificial intelligence is that good.

Nevertheless, I can't understand why notation programs can't export MIDI that uses the markings, given that there is an agreed standard on what values to use for mf, fff, etc. at the very least (and thus even crescendos could be done by adding EXP's to the MIDI along with or in place of correct note velocities).

by **mikehalloran** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:28 pm

The whole thing just feels like 'not ready for prime time' doesn't it? I might download it just to see how close to paid beta it really is.

If it works as advertised, could be a game changer.

by **MIDI Life Crisis** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:44 pm

How soon we forget:

viewtopic.php?f=26&t=46365&p=391101&hilit=scorecleaner#p391101

This was pretty lame-ass crap when I saw it last time.

by **mhschmieder** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:52 pm

Sorry; I didn't search back far enough since it was listed as a new product.

by **MIDI Life Crisis** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 5:31 pm

Totally cool, man. You never know, someday someone might figure this out. As of the last time I looked we were talking Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star, which or course is faster to simply notate yourself. As those of us working with higher end notation programs know, there are already ways to play and notate. Of course they ALL require accuracy and playing to metronome, which is what the program in question says is unnecessary. I find that so overblown a statement as to be supercilious.

by **mikehalloran** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 7:18 pm

I downloaded it for the 14 day evaluation.

There are two potential markets for this:

The first one is for keyboard players who, for some reason or another, can't get it together with a click track. Well I am not a keyboard player anymore - never really was when I had both hands - but I can still enter notes to a click track with my good hand.

The second is to repair MIDI tracks with timing issues. It's nice when quantization works but how about when they are too far off? Either you fix it or tell the client to record a better track. With that in mind, I threw it a poorly played MIDI file that, if it worked as advertised, should have cleaned up to the point where a little editing on my part would have made the track usable. The singer/songwriter on this mess has no problem with a click track unless she is also singing - as was the case here. My brain knows where the errant notes should go but ScoreCleaner! certainly can't figure it out.

When I asked it to assign a meter, it couldn't grasp the concept that this piano part was played in two clefs. I gave up after a while as you can't change a clef for the entire staff and drag notes between the two staves (this is notation program 1a). When I set it to Non Metrical, it got the clefs right. Editing the track in Encore, Finale, Logic or DP still appeared to be faster.

I can see a use if it gets a lot better but I will not invest my money until it is.

>This was pretty lame-ass crap when I saw it last time.<

Yes it was. It is greatly improved with version 2. Now it is an interesting idea with some promise but still far away from being there.

by **mhschmieder** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:28 pm

Thanks for the review, Mike -- I'll wait for version 8 :shock:

Sounds like the people programming it aren't very deep in their knowledge of music...

by **mikehalloran** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:48 pm

mhschmieder wrote:Thanks for the review, Mike -- I'll wait for version 8

Sounds like the people programming it aren't very deep in their knowledge of music...

It appears that the developers are so deep into the core functionality that they forget it needs to behave like a notation program as well. Some of the basic functionality one should expect is not there yet.

by **nk_e** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:01 pm

mikehalloran wrote:
mhschmieder wrote:Thanks for the review, Mike -- I'll wait for version 8

Sounds like the people programming it aren't very deep in their knowledge of music...
It appears that the developers are so deep into the core functionality that they forget it needs to behave like a notation program as well. Some of the basic functionality one should expect is not there yet.

Just curious, did you spend any time with the videos on the site walking through the functionality. I thought one of the videos (can't remember which at the moment) addressed the "two clefs" thing you mentioned earlier.

There's a third category this may appeal to (or maybe it's really your second category): writers with better compositional skill than chops. This seems to simplify a lot of the clean up before pulling it into something like Sibelius.

by **MIDI Life Crisis** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:52 pm

Folks with better compositional skills would be able to just work in a notation program and with entry at even a slower pace than real time with built in notation programs (like hyperscribe in Finale) will yield accurate results.

The app being touted is unnecessary and will not simply notate a freely played score to any great degree. Another BS app. IMO.

by **svenahlback** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:24 am

Dear all. Thanks for your valuable comments on ScoreCleaner. I am one of the developers of SCL and indeed also a musician, composer and music teacher. Since we are continously developing ScoreCleaner we do need feedback on what works and what does not, your expectations and needs. You are most welcome to contact us with any feedback on the functionality of ScoreCleaner, in particular snippets or MIDI files that you think ought to work properly and functionality you miss. Mail us at support@doremir.com. I can recommend watching the videos on http://scorecleaner.com/support/tutorials/ to get an overview of ScoreCleaners features and capabilities.
Sven Ahlbäck /DoReMIR Music Research/
PS. If anyone is interested in beta-testing upcoming versions please get in touch. DS.

by **nk_e** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:18 am

svenahlback wrote:Dear all. Thanks for your valuable comments on ScoreCleaner. I am one of the developers of SCL and indeed also a musician, composer and music teacher. Since we are continously developing ScoreCleaner we do need feedback on what works and what does not, your expectations and needs. You are most welcome to contact us with any feedback on the functionality of ScoreCleaner, in particular snippets or MIDI files that you think ought to work properly and functionality you miss. Mail us at support@doremir.com. I can recommend watching the videos on http://scorecleaner.com/support/tutorials/ to get an overview of ScoreCleaners features and capabilities.
Sven Ahlbäck /DoReMIR Music Research/
PS. If anyone is interested in beta-testing upcoming versions please get in touch. DS.

I am enjoying the demo so far and will purchase it. (Also, you need to post that next video on assigning VST instruments.)

Different workflows for different folks. I don't think this is an unnecessary piece of software. I am a newbie to scoring programs. I very much like Notion3 but recently purchased the cross grade to (and am trying to learn) Sibelius. I think the ability to take my poor playing sans metronome and "understand" it in a musical context (to a large degree) is simply marvelous. I anticipate using this as a front end to Sibelius largely.

If you could use a newbie to beta test, I'm your man.

(And yes, before grumpy folks jump on me, it would behoove me to get good enough with Sibelius so that I could do this quickly by hand. It also behooves me to practice and play more so I can play to a click better. It is also to my advantage to be a better person, eat more vegetables, practice yoga, and train for an upcoming marathon. However with job, family, and kids, Time is the main constraint and anything that helps my workflow is a boon.)

by **mikehalloran** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 12:09 pm

> did you spend any time with the videos on the site walking through the functionality. <

Yes.

I gave it a tongue twister of a file to fix - but one that is on my schedule to do so. Had ScoreCleaner! been able to save me time - or gave the appearance that it could, my credit card would be out. The task I gave was no different than having it "listen" to the MIDI file played in real time - the only difference is that this was recorded directly into Logic. Non Metric got the clefs right; Metric got them wrong and it wouldn't let me fix more than a measure or two at a time. Converting from Non to Metric gave me so many timing errors that it would have taken longer to fix than opening up in DP, Logic, Encore or Finale - all of which I already have.

I am not a potential customer for its core functionality. I have no problem with step-time or note entry to a click track. Neither do I have the ability to play anything with two hands anymore. I won't be as harsh as MLC on the core purpose of this but, I do feel it unnecessary in its present state even though it is greatly improved over v.1.

by **jamesdunlopmusic** » Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:33 am

I was reading this review yesterday in fact but I couldn't work out if you could import an entire orchestral score into it or not... All the examples refer to single staves or a piano... Could potentially be a massive timesaver :headbang:

by **mikehalloran** » Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:24 am

jamesdunlopmusic wrote:All the examples refer to single staves or a piano...

There's a reason for that.

Why would anyone try to import an orchestra score? Does a full MIDI orchestra exist that would need to be imported in real time?