Sibelius goes all Finale on it's own ass!

[mhschmieder]

This is all useful feedback from real-world use, which we don't see enough of on an internet dominated by geeks and trolls.

It seems that Finale has a bit of a preference here, and for some good reasons that are enlightening as they don't show up in quick demos. That's why I value hearing from you guys on this stuff.

Notion was cheap so I don't really think one needs to trash it for its shortcomings -- with the import/export capabilities, it seems reasonable to use it at the early stages if one finds its general composing workflow quicker, then switch to Finale or Sibelius once getting to serious score preparation.

Now here's something that might surprise some of you: Sibelius has a MUCH stronger following than Finale in the SF Bay Area, due to how heavily promoted it is by our local conductors and composers.

I like the idea of MOTU gobbling up Finale, maybe merging it with Mosaic and QuickScribe and creating the industry killer notation app! Bring it on!

The competitive cross-grade pricing makes it not too expensive to have two notation programs around. I guess I won't take another look at the revised Encore as it seems to still be a risk long-term. But I've always had a struggle deciding whether to go for Finale or Sibelius, partly due to the STRONG local bias in favour of Sibelius.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Notion was cheap so I don't really think one needs to trash it for its shortcomings --

Kind of a contradiction. Like saying don't trash McDonald's just because they sell you crap to eat... LOL! But as far as Finale having a preference here, perhaps it's because the same thought that goes into selecting DP as an app goes into selecting a notation program. We just want the best we can get...

I know S. has a great following. I just hate the app personally. That's all...

[ritzybiz]

The competitive cross-grade pricing makes it not too expensive to have two notation programs around. I guess I won't take another look at the revised Encore as it seems to still be a risk long-term. But I've always had a struggle deciding whether to go for Finale or Sibelius, partly due to the STRONG local bias in favour of Sibelius.

I am a long time Sibelius/DP user and the latest combination of Sib 7, DP 7.24 and Lion is working like a dream for me on my MacBook Pro. I installed the latest Rex Shared Library (1.7), and now using Sib 7 slaved to DP is working great! Even using complex tempo changes in DP, (setting Rewire mode in Sibelius to "tempo Track"), the two apps track impeccably and allows writing a score to an existing track a breeze.
I would highly recommend the newest Sibelius, and even though there are some bugs in the new version, they have made great advances.
I can't instal Lion on my Mac Pro in the studio as my UAD card is not yet supported.

[Elektroakoustika]

After spending some time with demo, there is a lot to like about Sibelius 7. There are a lot of things in there that are simply done in a well-thought out simplistic manner than currently Finale doesn't have. And the full screen mode is really awesome on my 30 inch monitor. Thats something I've been waiting forever for!

That being said, I'm still used to many things from Finale that I'm going to wait and see what Finale 2012 has to offer this Fall. I'm still on 2010 as I saw no pressing need to update to 2011. Once MakeMusic releases Finale 2012, I'll make a decision then on what to do. Hopefully MakeMusic realizes that Sibelius has really made some major improvements and decides to make some for Finale as well.

As of right now I can still keep going with 2010 until the Fall. Especially since it looks like I'll need to spend my money on more RAM since EW Hollywood Strings decided to eat all mine up...

[mhschmieder]

If you zoom in on the picture of the retail box at Sweetwater, you'll see that the crossgrade price is for users of the full edition of Encore, Moasic, Finale, or Notion:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Sib7cg/

I could find no competitive crossgrade offers for Finale anywhere. Maybe because they're due to a new edition?

I visited the Sibelius forum tonight just to get a feel for its "character", and find it a bit smarmy. Rather, vendor attitude towards customers doesn't seem very warm and fuzzy as with MOTU.

Still, the $160 price tag is a small price to pay for a fully professional notation program that is capable of addressing any future needs for parts extraction, publishing, etc.

OTOH I seem to recall preferring Finale's fonts -- though I think Sibelius switched theirs recently. I happen to like Notion's fonts quite a bit, as well as its scoring templates.

Out of fairness, here is Encore's upgrade offer of $89, which covers even more notation programs:

http://www.computermusicshop.com/GVOX-E ... recomp.htm

I definitely don't like their fonts! Or at least the ones they show in screen shots at their website.

I suspect the real shootout will be this fall between Sibelius and Finale, once Finale 2012 is announced. Do they usually release their updates at the AES Show?

[mhschmieder]

Looks like the Sibelius 7 Reference Manual is a separate purchase for $40:

http://www.audiomidi.com/Sibelius-7-Ref ... 16617.aspx

Does anyone know the history of printed manuals with Sibelius?

[MIDI Life Crisis]

I could find no competitive crossgrade offers for Finale anywhere. Maybe because they're due to a new edition?

http://www.finalemusic.com/Downloads/De ... spx?id=247" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Looks like the Finale 7 Reference Manual is a separate purchase for $40:

http://www.audiomidi.com/Sibelius-7-Ref ... 16617.aspx

Does anyone know the history of printed manuals with Sibelius?

I think you meant the Sibelius 7 manual. When I bought S. 3 it came with a DP sized manual. I miss having a printed manual for Finale.

As far as the price of S. being a 'no brainer' I found that at any price the app was useless to me. I wouldn't even take a free copy if they asked me to be a spokesperson. Even with speedy entry stolen from Finale, I still can get my head around the rest of the app.

[mhschmieder]

I suppose it's like DAW preferences in a way, so it's best just to try them all again in their current state, but I see your point about Sibelius kind of being a follower vs. a leader.

I corrected my posting for my late-night thinko/typo; of course I meant the Sibelius manual is $40. Thanks for the link to the Finale competitive upgrade form; I've saved it to disc for later.

[adriano]

Hello forum,

Just came across this thread about notation programs and was wondering, if any of you has ever used/tested Notability Pro.

Here is a link:
http://debussy.music.ubc.ca/NoteAbility/index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Adriano

[mhschmieder]

I seem to recall a friend or two using that program, but the first thing I notice at that website is that the copyright range goes from 2000 to 2007.

In other words, is this a dead (or soon-to-be-dead) company/product?

Maybe it's worth trying the demo though. Sometimes trying demos of products you don't buy, gives clarity on products you do use or buy. It's like looking at something from different perspectives until you "get it".

I personally am holding off on downloading any demos, because I want to wait until the next Finale update becomes available so I can download and compare all notation program demos at the same time vs. depending on memories for comparisons.

Hmm, I went back to the Opus 1 website, and it seems some of their pages are active (and quite recently):

http://debussy.music.ubc.ca/index.html/

So maybe this is still a current product.

OTOH the NoteWriter product is abandonware as of the Intel chip switch on Macs:

http://debussy.music.ubc.ca/NoteWriter/index.html

I don't know what to think at this point, but I would be shy of buying something as important as a notation program from a company that I have doubts will still support the product or still be around after the next OS or hardware change at Apple's end.

[Nigel Keay]

I'll no doubt end up getting Sibelius 7 as I'm in the process of shifting to a new Mac with Lion and I've only got Sib 4 (PPC) at the moment, and Lion doesn't do Rosetta... time for an upgrade in any case.
Derek Williams' comments on Sib 7 on sibeliusblog.com make interesting (and entertaining) reading as he knows Composer's Mosaic which gets a mention there concerning handling of tuplets.

[Phil O]

I'm downloading the demo right now. Just from a quick look at the videos on their web site, it looks like keyboard entry (which is what I mainly use in Finale) is a little awkward compared to Finale. Let me play with this thing for a few days and I'll report back.

Phil

[adriano]

I seem to recall a friend or two using that program, but the first thing I notice at that website is that the copyright range goes from 2000 to 2007.

In other words, is this a dead (or soon-to-be-dead) company/product?

Maybe it's worth trying the demo though. Sometimes trying demos of products you don't buy, gives clarity on products you do use or buy. It's like looking at something from different perspectives until you "get it".

I personally am holding off on downloading any demos, because I want to wait until the next Finale update becomes available so I can download and compare all notation program demos at the same time vs. depending on memories for comparisons.

Hmm, I went back to the Opus 1 website, and it seems some of their pages are active (and quite recently):

http://debussy.music.ubc.ca/index.html/

So maybe this is still a current product.

OTOH the NoteWriter product is abandonware as of the Intel chip switch on Macs:

http://debussy.music.ubc.ca/NoteWriter/index.html

I don't know what to think at this point, but I would be shy of buying something as important as a notation program from a company that I have doubts will still support the product or still be around after the next OS or hardware change at Apple's end.

Hi mhschmieder,

Yes, about the copyrights on their site. It's been like that, but I see them releasing updates very often. Here is another link, just click on the "What's new in this version" tab

http://www.macmusic.org/software/view.p ... AbilityPro#" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Adriano

[Nigel Keay]

After version 4 I'm quite enjoying using Sib 7 I have to say. They did a survey recently to see what features users wanted in the future; lots of multi-choice options to select, one of the most noteworthy for me was the idea of a wiper with a scrub function - that seemed to be pushing a lot further in sequencer territory (if it did get implemented).

[MIDI Life Crisis]

You can't scrub music in Sibelius?