Sibelius goes all Finale on it's own ass!

[mhschmieder]

A lot of Sibelius folks are now considering switching to Notion, as of the new Notion 4 release that came out this week, and due to the failure to find enough qualified programmers in The Ukraine with specific enough skills to take over the work after the UK staff was let go (this is second-hand from other forums so take it for what it is).

I am hesitant to upgrade to Notion 4 as I want to force myself to learn and use Finale 2012, which I installed a few weeks ago. It is yet another major change in the program, and there isn't sufficient information at the website yet in my opinion given the upgrade cost, the confusion over relaunching Progression as a separate tablature-based notation app, and the apparent incompatibility with extensions in previous releases.

Nevertheless, the few screen displays and descriptions that are present on the site look nice. They also seem to have done a good job of the mobile versions, and I'm not sure either Sibelius or Finale has adequately addressed that market yet.

[nk_e]

All comes down to what you need. I took advantage of some outrageous cross-grade deals and specials to end up with all three over the last year for not a lot of money at all.

I'm a true novice at using these programs and my needs are extremely basic in the end. However, FWIW Notion is by far the most approachable, the use of third party VIs and its mixer are heads and shoulders easier to set up and use for my money (especially compared to Sibelius), and I can straight away get productive fast.

Others here have said Notion is really limited in important ways. I've yet to hit those walls (my needs and abilities ARE basic). I don't see anything in this release that brings a lot more score layout functionality to things or compositional aids (a la Sibelius).

Cheap as chips compared to the others it is though....

[mikehalloran]

I have Notion on my iPad - bought it during the el-cheapo release. I can't say that I have looked at it yet.

Finale still works well for me although for quick down 'n dirty, I'll fire up Encore.

[greeny]

Here is a working link to the Humberstone article "Learn Sibelius in one hour"

http://www.composerhome.com/Sibelius_resources.html

[Kubi]

Is there actually official word on some sort of abandonment of Sibelius, or is this all the usual internet rumor mill (according to which Logic is also being abandoned..., which is simply not true)?

Just curious, since I just finally gave up on Finale about a year ago and switched to Sibelius (and like it quite a bit.)

[nk_e]

Avid says it isn't, but they fired - en masse - the product development team. Word is they are hiring a completely new team in a former east block country.

The avid Sibelius team was hired - en masse pretty much - by Steinberg just recently.

[mhschmieder]

I thought I posted it here earlier but can't find it now and haven't the time to re-search for the link, but they did make an official layoff announcement of the entire staff in the UK and an attempt to hire a few in maybe the Czech Republic to take over maintenance etc., but then I heard they didn't find people with the right skill sets (though people can be trained of course, over time). So it doesn't bode well for the short term at least.

[bdr]

yes, according to 'the grapevine' they tried to hire people in the Ukraine and couldn't find the right people, and in fact tried to rehire some of the sacked UK workers. so really where things stand at the moment is a little unclear. There is supposed to be ver.8 that had already been pretty much finished by the UK team before redundancies but after that who knows. Steinberg have made it clear what they are up to by hiring the ex-UK programmers en masse, but I'm really not excited about starting with another notation program when I am so fast now a Sibelius.

[chaosmage]

Hi,

First time poster here, I'm a music educator in SoCal/LA area, and would like to ask if anyone has used Notion with any regularity. They seem to have embraced the mobile influx. I like the unified Mac/iPad idea, and since it appears Sibelius isn't getting off their bums anytime soon to make one, I need something to use at work. I don't need high-end advanced composing, just mainly the ability to alter pre-made scores and some minor composing on my own. I have former students who try their hand at it and I clean it up for them.

Thanks and I'm glad I found this board. Got me the info on Sibelius's possible downturn.

EDIT: I did just see the Finale Notepad/iPad announcement from February. Looks like I'm way behind.

[nk_e]

Hi,

First time poster here, I'm a music educator in SoCal/LA area, and would like to ask if anyone has used Notion with any regularity. They seem to have embraced the mobile influx. I like the unified Mac/iPad idea, and since it appears Sibelius isn't getting off their bums anytime soon to make one, I need something to use at work. I don't need high-end advanced composing, just mainly the ability to alter pre-made scores and some minor composing on my own. I have former students who try their hand at it and I clean it up for them.

Thanks and I'm glad I found this board. Got me the info on Sibelius's possible downturn.

EDIT: I did just see the Finale Notepad/iPad announcement from February. Looks like I'm way behind.

If your needs are not complex, I think Notion may just fit the bill for you. The set up is dead simple. It is THE easiest program to use with third party VSTs, integrating with them beautifully IMHO. The iPad app is very capable, although you will want some sort of stylus (I use the JOT) so as to not go insane with fat finger syndrome.

Maybe it is just me, but trying to get Sibelius to work with third party libraries is a friggin' nightmare. I also find its mixer to be a joke (especially compared to Notion's).

The SoundSetProject (http://www.soundsetproject.com/) provides third party sound set integration packages for Sibelius (everything mapped, house styles, etc) really inexpensively for VSTs and even some hardware. Here is a list of supported developers/manufacturers:

audiobro
Cinesamples
EastWest
Garritan
IK Multimedia
Korg
Kurzweil
Native Instruments
Other Collections
ProjectSAM
Roland
Sonivox
Total Composure
UVI / Ultimate Sound Bank
Vir2
Wallander

I've bought several but frankly bolloxed the installs. (Totally my fault...I had just installed Sibelius and caverlierly assumed that installing these packages was a no brainer. It is....AFTER you have a basic understanding of what is going on. DOH!) It is frustrating how complicated it is in Sibelius to use 3rd party VSTs when something like Notion makes it so seamless.

Now YMMV. As I state earlier, my needs are basic, but I have not run into a head scratcher yet when trying to use Notion - not because it's overly limited, but because it is well-designed.

EDIT: I should add that all that said, I am still trying to learn Sibelius on the theory that 1) it isn't going away, 2) Avid will not totally screw up v8, and 3) whatever the Steinberg team comes up with will be simpatico and may offer an easy path for moving to a modern advanced scoring environment. As to Finale...too many dialogue boxes in a product that needs a serious design update and it is not clear it is going to get it.

[mjmoody]

Finale can do anything you want, and it IS supported, and development is continuing.

[nk_e]

Finale can do anything you want, and it IS supported, and development is continuing.

Is it? There have been so many rumors and counter rumors ... can you share a bit more info?

[MIDI Life Crisis]

No need for rumors. You call the company or visit their blog and request support.

Don't believe everything you think.

[nk_e]

No need for rumors. You call the company or visit their blog and request support.

Don't believe everything you think.

(Believe my I don't...I'm plagued with self doubt! But that's a different issue!)

Well, by that logic, Sibelius is fine too...if you call Avid.

I'm just saying if you read the forums, users seem to be confused about what is - or isn't - happening with Finale.

My comment about the interface was just my own preference/opinion. Many like the plethora of windows and dialogues. my mileage varies...

[MIDI Life Crisis]

FWIW, I've used Finale for projects from solo works to full orchestra since 1996 and while it has it's issues, it has always delivered. Yes, it's deep with menus. I get past that with Quickeys and custom mouse settings with Steer Mouse.

It's not that I haven't tried S. I did and worked for a year trying to like it. I didn't. Finale took me 3 days to basically get the hang of and I find it very intuitive.

The pro composers and orchestrators I know use it. If it was as bad as it is being represented here I doubt that would be that case.

Could support be better? Could features be better implemented? Could the app be more efficient? Of course. That's true of pretty much every app.

From my perspective, I choose the tools I feel is best suited and deal with it. For serious notation we have two choices. S. and F. I choose F. Beyond that I don't have much else to offer in general terms.