Beatle Nowhere Man - Anyone Hear a 9th

Discussions about composing, arranging, orchestration, songwriting, theory, etc...

Moderators: Frodo, FMiguelez, MIDI Life Crisis

Forum rules
Discussions about composing, arranging, orchestration, songwriting, theory and the art of creating music in all forms from orchestral film scores to pop/rock.
NazRat
Posts: 1214
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 1:55 pm
Primary DAW OS: Unspecified

Beatle Nowhere Man - Anyone Hear a 9th

Post by NazRat »

After the opening acapella, Harrison's first E run leading into the verse is different from the rest. It's a chord rather than a single note to start and a full measure later. Is it a 9th? I hear a F# in there, but a buddy says no way. There's a very chimey E9 in the second position. Anywho . . . I'm still hearing things I never noticed before in the Beatles stuff.
DP8.06 PT11.2.0 VEP 5.3.x
828mkII 828mk3 ADA8000 MTP-AV Komplete Audio 6
Mac Mini Quad 10.9.4 - HP Quad Laptop Win 8.1
User avatar
Kurt Cowling
Posts: 384
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Milwaukee, WI

Re: Beatle Nowhere Man - Anyone Hear a 9th

Post by Kurt Cowling »

You are right on all counts to my ear. I hear an F# and a D, making it an E9 chord. And yes, it's a bar later than where it appears elsewhere.

--Kurt

p.s. Do you use Transcribe! by Seventh String Software for transcribing? If not, you should check it out. http://www.seventhstring.com/
DP 11.1, Monterey, 2021 MacBook Pro M1-Max, 2017 iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, Omnisphere 2, Trilian, Stylus RMX, EZ Drummer 2, MachFive 3.11, Real Guitar2, Real Strat, Sample Modeling trumpet, saxes, trombone, Fr Horn/Tuba. Audio Modeling clarinets, double reeds, flutes, strings, Kontakt 6, Flux Pure Limiter 3, PSP Vintage Warmer, PSP MixPack, PSP StereoPack, PSP Impressor, Altiverb 7, Izotope RX8 Standard, Yamaha S-90ES, Yamaha MOXF-8, Yamaha MX60, Sibelius subscription, Adobe CC and Motion 5.
User avatar
Frodo
Posts: 15597
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: The Shire

Re: Beatle Nowhere Man - Anyone Hear a 9th

Post by Frodo »

Keep in mind that by the time the Beatles were into this phase of their studio progress, it wasn't always about two guitars, bass, and drums. There were overdubs.

There's definitely an E9 right before "doesn't have a point of view". That would include an F# and a D in the chord. The question is who's really playing it. I suspect that it's Lennon playing the chord and Harrison doing the single line.

FWIW-- there are some live vids of them on youtube in which the E9, with the D and F#, are conspicuously absent. Be warned-- the vocals are not what you'd call "always happy".

Lennon flips the lyrics-- kinda cool in its own way. Who said life was perfect?

I gotta tell ya, though, those Epiphone Casino's have had my vote since 1966.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FxX5JHvAiM" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
6,1 MacPro, 96GB RAM, macOS Monterey 12.7, macOS 10.14, DP9.52
User avatar
Kurt Cowling
Posts: 384
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Milwaukee, WI

Re: Beatle Nowhere Man - Anyone Hear a 9th

Post by Kurt Cowling »

Yes, the melody note (B) in that line is much louder than the chord. Almost certainly two guitars.

--Kurt
DP 11.1, Monterey, 2021 MacBook Pro M1-Max, 2017 iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, Omnisphere 2, Trilian, Stylus RMX, EZ Drummer 2, MachFive 3.11, Real Guitar2, Real Strat, Sample Modeling trumpet, saxes, trombone, Fr Horn/Tuba. Audio Modeling clarinets, double reeds, flutes, strings, Kontakt 6, Flux Pure Limiter 3, PSP Vintage Warmer, PSP MixPack, PSP StereoPack, PSP Impressor, Altiverb 7, Izotope RX8 Standard, Yamaha S-90ES, Yamaha MOXF-8, Yamaha MX60, Sibelius subscription, Adobe CC and Motion 5.
NazRat
Posts: 1214
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 1:55 pm
Primary DAW OS: Unspecified

Re: Beatle Nowhere Man - Anyone Hear a 9th

Post by NazRat »

Frodo wrote: FWIW-- there are some live vids of them on youtube in which the E9, with the D and F#, are conspicuously absent. Be warned-- the vocals are not what you'd call "always happy".
Yeah . . . they seem to dumb down a lot of their stuff live. But that's OK - wish I could do the same.
DP8.06 PT11.2.0 VEP 5.3.x
828mkII 828mk3 ADA8000 MTP-AV Komplete Audio 6
Mac Mini Quad 10.9.4 - HP Quad Laptop Win 8.1
User avatar
HCMarkus
Posts: 9712
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:01 am
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Rancho Bohemia, California
Contact:

Re: Beatle Nowhere Man - Anyone Hear a 9th

Post by HCMarkus »

Smart music can sound pretty great dumbed down.
User avatar
Frodo
Posts: 15597
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: The Shire

Re: Beatle Nowhere Man - Anyone Hear a 9th

Post by Frodo »

A lot of the so-called "dumbing down" had to do with the fact that there were no foldback monitors in those days. Live-- they couldn't hear themselves. They also had to figure how to play their own signature guitar parts even if 3-4 overdubs characterized the spirit of the recording.

As their tunes got more complex in the studio, it became harder to produce them 'live' back then. If you've ever seen a live performance of "Paperback Writer" you would understand how unthinkable things were. We sort of take it for granted now. "Oh, just call Meyer Sound to do the tour and to set up the side fills."

Side fills? Right. Unheard of back then. They were basically yodeling into a veritable canyon even as we fuss about ADC and latency!! For the Beatles-- it was a hockey rink, a baseball stadium, or a dinky house PA most of the time.

Still-- I've never been able to let go of the fact that their tunes remain near the top of the best music the 20th century had to offer. Forget guitar parts for just a sec. The melodies and lyrics and harmonies are among the most original and most imitated (but never duplicated) of all.
6,1 MacPro, 96GB RAM, macOS Monterey 12.7, macOS 10.14, DP9.52
User avatar
daniel.sneed
Posts: 2239
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: France
Contact:

Re: Beatle Nowhere Man - Anyone Hear a 9th

Post by daniel.sneed »

Frodo wrote:[...]Forget guitar parts for just a sec. The melodies and lyrics and harmonies are among the most original and most imitated (but never duplicated) of all.
Thanks for laying this down, Frodo. Yeah! They still just get me stumped!
dAn Shakin' all over! :unicorn:
DP11.31, OS12.7.4, MacBookPro-i7-3.1Ghz-16GoRam-1ToSSD
Falcon, Kontakt, Ozone, RX, Unisum & Michelangelo, LX480
Waldorf Iridium & STVC & Blofeld, Kemper Profiler Stage, EWIusb, Studiologic VMK, ControlPad
JBL4326+4312sub, Behringer X32rack
Many mics, mandolins, banjos, guitars, flutes, melodions, xylos, kalimbas...
Movies
Posts: 300
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:14 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Beatle Nowhere Man - Anyone Hear a 9th

Post by Movies »

A little off-topic, but not terribly so:

The day I read this, was the day I thought, "Okay. I can die now."
MacBook Pro 2.5 GHz Quad-Core Intel i7/16GB, OSX 10.14.6, DP 10.1, MOTU 896mk3
Dr.Hash
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:54 pm
Primary DAW OS: Unspecified

Re: Beatle Nowhere Man - Anyone Hear a 9th

Post by Dr.Hash »

Sorry guys I might be wrong and you guys may know more theory than me, Im more a technologist but I looked up my complete beatle score book (I hope you all know the book, it's pretty accurate) and no e9. its e/b/a/e/F#m/am and back to e. What you might be hearing is the weird e movable chord shape which is a d chord on the forth fret with the little finger playing an g sharp on the d string. Of course I am not much of theorist so if those 4 notes make up a ninth let me know. Okay just worked the chord out def not a ninth.

Also the beatles used rickenbacker 12 strings a lot on this album, I am not sure about this track. I think lennon was using his casino by this stage and george was on the rickenbacker. This coupled with the vox amp and the neumann microphones they were using and of course the custom built EMI mixing desks really altered the guitar tone they were getting. It gave the beatles a harmonically rich tone that could easily account for the ninth that you are hearing.

Ben MMusTech(Master of Music Technology) University of Newcastle
http://www.aaudiomystiks.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
NazRat
Posts: 1214
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 1:55 pm
Primary DAW OS: Unspecified

Re: Beatle Nowhere Man - Anyone Hear a 9th

Post by NazRat »

Dr.Hash wrote: What you might be hearing is the weird e movable chord shape which is a d chord on the forth fret with the little finger playing an g sharp on the d string.
I got a chance to double track this with the band and I found that a Bsus4 worked best - kinda where the Dr. was headed (D formation), except in the second position with a F# in the top. I realize that the chord is not listed in the score book, but this is a solo part. So one guitar Bsus4 (let it ring), the other guitar, the B to B run - rhythm guitars on E. I played the acoustic also which is capoed at the second fret which helps that formation make sense.
DP8.06 PT11.2.0 VEP 5.3.x
828mkII 828mk3 ADA8000 MTP-AV Komplete Audio 6
Mac Mini Quad 10.9.4 - HP Quad Laptop Win 8.1
Movies
Posts: 300
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:14 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Beatle Nowhere Man - Anyone Hear a 9th

Post by Movies »

Have you found "The Complete Scores" to be super accurate? This might be a discussion for another thread, but I've owned that dealie for a number of years and, while I've found it to be an INCREDIBLE resource and an amazingly ambitious project, I'm often coming across things that are transcribed incorrectly.

Granted, I'm not saying that this is one of those instances -- I just never think of that book as a dispute-settler.

I'd be interested to hear other peoples' thoughts on it, for sure!
MacBook Pro 2.5 GHz Quad-Core Intel i7/16GB, OSX 10.14.6, DP 10.1, MOTU 896mk3
Dr.Hash
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:54 pm
Primary DAW OS: Unspecified

Re: Beatle Nowhere Man - Anyone Hear a 9th

Post by Dr.Hash »

Movies wrote:Have you found "The Complete Scores" to be super accurate? This might be a discussion for another thread, but I've owned that dealie for a number of years and, while I've found it to be an INCREDIBLE resource and an amazingly ambitious project, I'm often coming across things that are transcribed incorrectly.

Granted, I'm not saying that this is one of those instances -- I just never think of that book as a dispute-settler.

I'd be interested to hear other peoples' thoughts on it, for sure!


I agree as I say it's fairly accurate and I can say this with some authority. I recently punched in/recorded and played Stawberry Fields and Because. They both turned out to be very accurate. The only thing that was missing was a tempo, fingering for the chords and on Stawberry Fields no percussion. I love this book though anyone know of a similar Pink Floyd book?

Ben
User avatar
zed
Posts: 3193
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Vancouver, BC

Re: Beatle Nowhere Man - Anyone Hear a 9th

Post by zed »

Movies wrote:Have you found "The Complete Scores" to be super accurate?
I have this book, and have not studied it very carefully but have found some mistakes in songs I was looking at.

I really can't stand the look of the book. I sure wish there was a version of it without the ugly handwritten font, and with some nice looking fretboard diagrams.

My favorite Beatles Songbook, at the moment is The Beatles Complete Chord Songbook (arranged by Rikky Rooksby in the original keys) which is beautifully laid out if all you are looking for is guitar chord (with fingerings) and lyrics. It doesn't include 9th chord in Nowhere Man, if anyone is wondering.
MacPro 2.8 GHz 8-Core Intel Xeon | 14 GB RAM | OS 10.11.6 | DP 8
User avatar
Frodo
Posts: 15597
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: The Shire

Re: Beatle Nowhere Man - Anyone Hear a 9th

Post by Frodo »

Movies wrote:Have you found "The Complete Scores" to be super accurate? This might be a discussion for another thread, but I've owned that dealie for a number of years and, while I've found it to be an INCREDIBLE resource and an amazingly ambitious project, I'm often coming across things that are transcribed incorrectly.

Granted, I'm not saying that this is one of those instances -- I just never think of that book as a dispute-settler.

I'd be interested to hear other peoples' thoughts on it, for sure!


You have a point, Movies. That book is not to be taken for granted being one of the very few of its kind in terms of depth of info, but it's not 100% accurate. That said, it's likely the book is 90-95% accurate. It's just that last 5-10% of geekitude we're getting into at the moment that would be of little consequence for most people... but we're not "most people"!!

Still, imho what's on the track is more important and valid than what's in any book of transcriptions.
6,1 MacPro, 96GB RAM, macOS Monterey 12.7, macOS 10.14, DP9.52
Post Reply