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Under appreciated composers

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Discussions about composing, arranging, orchestration, songwriting, theory and the art of creating music in all forms from orchestral film scores to pop/rock.

Re: Under appreciated composers

Postby FMiguelez » Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:27 pm

Frodo wrote:
FMiguelez wrote:With all due respect, may I ask how you know this?
Would you provide evidence for such a claim? :?


It's well-documented. I'll search for a respectable article and will post it for you. Just know that this was the plight of musicians back then--- you either stayed or you escaped. If you stayed you were under the thumb of whomever had the final say. It wasn't always pretty.


I'd really appreciate it if you do that, Frodo. Karajan is one of my idols, and I never heard of such a thing.
Similar things are said about Strauss too? :shock:
OMG. He is another of my all-time idols as well! I consider him an orchestration God.

I'd like to read about those accusations in CONTEXT and from reliable sources. Please post anything supporting those claims that you consider authoritative. I trust your judgement implicitly.

[If this would stretch Forum's rules, please PM me instead]
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Re: Under appreciated composers

Postby Frodo » Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:32 pm

Hey FM:

I edited my posted after you quoted it, as you can see. This can get into a sticky area with politics and religion and race-- but I will gather a few links and PM you, if that's okay.
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Re: Under appreciated composers

Postby FMiguelez » Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:34 pm

Frodo wrote:Hey FM:

I edited my posted after you quoted it, as you can see. This can get into a sticky area with politics and religion and race-- but I will gather a few links and PM you, if that's okay.


I'd TOTALLY appreciate that, Frodo.
Please PM me. This thread could turn quite ugly otherwise.
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Re: Under appreciated composers

Postby Frodo » Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:43 pm

FMiguelez wrote:Please PM me. This thread could turn quite ugly otherwise.


No-- we don't want anything to turn ugly!! :shock: :shock:

PM sent.
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Re: Under appreciated composers

Postby FMiguelez » Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:01 pm

Frodo wrote:
FMiguelez wrote:Please PM me. This thread could turn quite ugly otherwise.


No-- we don't want anything to turn ugly!! :shock: :shock:

PM sent.


I just got them, Frodo.
Thank you for the info. I'll study your links carefully tonight.

@ MHSchmieder:
Sorry if it seemed I jumped at you. It's just that it came as a shock to me, since I had never heard of such things.
You are MHSchmieder, so I should've known you wouldn't have posted such a claim without true facts. You are always careful and knowledgeable and prudent, so I apologize for my reaction.

I just found it hard to believe that 2 giants, such as HvK and R. Strauss, 2 of my idols, with such musical genious and amazing SENSITIVITY to be involved in one of history's most horrible and dreadful chapters.

Like I said, I will read the info Frodo sent me very carefully tonight.

None of the Music History books I've read even hint at this. Hmmmmm... It's understandable, but questionable... I wish they had mentioned it, or at least provided a reference at the end of the chapters about this dark side of them.
I feel like a dumb ass now.
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Re: Under appreciated composers

Postby bdr » Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:12 pm

Turning positive again...

there's a great story about Wozzeck in the film scoring bible 'On the Track'. David Raksin (wonderful golden age film composer, wrote 'Laura' among many other great scores) recalls meeting a director to discuss scoring his film one day, and as they say sometimes (but usually don't mean), he didn't want 'anymore of that Hollywood music, but something different, really powerful-like Wozzeck'. Raksin was beyond excited to meet a director who even knew of Wozzeck, and who thought it would suit his film.

So anyhow Raksin is sitting at home, chatting to the director, having a drink, music on in the background, thinking 'this is the way things ought to be: I liked his script, I admired him, and couldn't wait to get working on the score. Suddenly irritable, the director said 'What's that crap you're playing?' 'That crap' Raksin replied, 'is Wozzeck'.
:)
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Re: Under appreciated composers

Postby Frodo » Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:19 pm

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Re: Under appreciated composers

Postby kgdrum » Tue Feb 08, 2011 5:42 pm

Hi FM,I have not heard Schoenberg's "A Survivor from Warsaw,I will look for it ,thanks..................


a different genre but another brilliant under appreciated composer I have been listening to the last few days: The Muhal Richard Abrams Orchestra:Blu Blu Blu ,this album is wicked :wink:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yf25NTCBMWU
Last edited by kgdrum on Tue Feb 08, 2011 6:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Under appreciated composers

Postby kgdrum » Tue Feb 08, 2011 5:57 pm

Frodo wrote:Berg was brilliant-- one of my top favorite 20th Century composers.

If you're interested in opera, the DVDs of Wozzeck and Lulu are worth seeing.


my stereo playback system has way better fidelity than my TV/DVD system
the stereo is Tube Preamp and Tube Monoblocks, 24/384 upsampling Dac,TT, great full range floor standing speakers etc....I will always prefer listening instead of watching on my bad TV/DVD setup.
Last edited by kgdrum on Sun Oct 28, 2012 10:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Under appreciated composers

Postby mhschmieder » Wed Feb 09, 2011 1:36 pm

Sorry, I didn't mean to inadvertently introduce politics into the thread, but it's my own fault for wording the statement the way I did.

It's a bit emotional for me at this point in time, because I just found out two weeks ago that two of my own relatives were sent to the gas chamber because they tried to protect some of the musicians who were done away with at that time, so I'm not feeling very kindly towards a more benevolent interpretation of HvK's actions at this particular juncture.

I considered it by now to be common knowledge, so didn't think I was stating anything new, but as I just said, I used overly emotional terminology due to my current level of anger over what happened. :sorry:

If you want to find out how few conductors come out shining as good people, read "The Maestro Myth", which my sister gave me for Christmas a few years ago. It was not too surprising to me that my favourite conductors (Ashkenazy, Mackerras, Marriner, Barbirolli, Fischer-Dieskau, Abbado, and a few others) came out shining in their humanity and their treatment of others (as well as avoidance of grandstanding).

Those conductors also have done a great job of promoting new composers and works, and overlooked composers and works.
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Re: Under appreciated composers

Postby mhschmieder » Wed Feb 09, 2011 1:42 pm

As for Alban Berg, who was a pupil of Schoenberg, he has been well-represented at the San Francisco Opera:

http://archive.sfopera.com/qry1operalist.asp?x_Composer=Alban%20Berg&z_Composer=LIKE%2C%27%25%2C%25%27

Those late 1990's performances of Lulu and Wozzeck still remain strong in my memory, and played a big part in my getting interested in regular opera attendance for the first time since attending Indiana University School of Music (which is so well-known for opera that I got spoiled).
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Re: Under appreciated composers

Postby kgdrum » Mon Feb 14, 2011 6:04 pm

Well I keep finding these brilliant composers I haven't heard before,they seem to keep finding me
lol

Alfred Schnittke
Trio for Strings Conductor: Yuri Bashmet
Orchestra/Ensemble: Moscow Soloists
Warwick Arts Center, Coventry, England

Concerto for Viola by Alfred Schnittke
Performer: Yuri Bashmet (Viola)
Conductor: Mstislav Rostropovich
London Symphony Orchestra
EMI Abbey Road Studio No. 1, London

RCA red seal
beautiful music :love:
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Re: Under appreciated composers

Postby kgdrum » Tue Feb 22, 2011 5:44 pm

Well I am starting to realize how many amazing composers there are out there that most people have never heard of.
Today I heard Golgotha by Frank Martin(Harmonia Mundi).
This is a beautiful choral piece from a composer of great skill I never heard of before,highly recommended.
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Re: Under appreciated composers

Postby kgdrum » Sun Mar 13, 2011 10:53 am

Hi FM,
I want to thank you for recommending A Survivor of Warsaw!(listened to it 6 or 7 times already)
What a brilliant composer Schoenberg is omg,
his Violin Concerto is simply astounding as well,
I have also been enjoying 5 pieces for Orch.
It is amazing how many brilliant 20th century composers are out there that hardly get noticed.
again thanks for turning me on to Schoenberg

this week I have been also getting into Elliott Carter(yeah the quest is endless:)

Symph. for 3 Orchestras ,4 string Quartets and Duo for Violin and Piano

now I have to find time to play more,too much listening......
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Re: Under appreciated composers

Postby FMiguelez » Mon Mar 14, 2011 12:23 pm

kgdrum wrote:Hi FM,
I want to thank you for recommending A Survivor of Warsaw!(listened to it 6 or 7 times already)
What a brilliant composer Schoenberg is omg,
his Violin Concerto is simply astounding as well,
I have also been enjoying 5 pieces for Orch.


Hey, KGDrum.
I'm glad you enjoyed Schoenberg's master piece :D
Isn't it so powerful? You can really feel the anguish and fear of the speaker. The music tells the story amazingly well.

I really love Schoenberg. All his music (including his "tonal period").

I think he is one of the best known 20th century composers, but that isn't always reflected in concert programs, sadly.
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