Under appreciated composers

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Discussions about composing, arranging, orchestration, songwriting, theory and the art of creating music in all forms from orchestral film scores to pop/rock.
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Re: Under appreciated composers

Post by Frodo »

wrathy wrote:
Quite right. I guess I was referring to the institution itself. At what point does it/should it grow the audience or introduce its audience to new works?
That could be the moment they endeavor to generate a whole new kind of an audience. There are many aspects to this where education and marketing are concerned:

1. The Met may not be able to sustain a robust audience interest in contemporary works, but perhaps this is one way City Opera or Chicago Lyric or Houston Opera or Santa Fe and the like could distinguish themselves.

2. Those who'd go to hear a modern opera are likely people with more complex personas. They are more likely to be musicians who've had extensive experience listening to modern music. I would even say that they are likely the kinds of people who may not even available to get to the opera house on a night when such an opera is being performed because they might have another gig!

3. I do give the Met credit for choosing Barber's Antony and Cleopatra for the opening of its Lincoln Center house back in the 60's, but I've heard of few revivals of it. The music is absolutely brilliant, however I thought the production was a little gaudy.

http://images.google.com/hosted/life/f? ... 78b7057068

http://www.schirmer.com/images/news/GS-barber-NOV08.jpg

4. Schools still tend to place more emphasis on baroque, classical, and romantic music training with a slightly-above-obligatory requirement with contemporary literature. Pianists, for example, who are most likely to sustain some kind of performing careers will probably find themselves doing more performances of the concertos of Tchaikowsky, Grieg, and Gershwin rather than, say, Prokofiev Second or Previn's masterful Piano Concerto or Barber's Piano Concerto. Or how about the piano concertos of Ligeti, Liebermann, Cage, Ogden, Babbitt or similar?

Yet, each takes the same amount of blood, sweat, and tears to learn. So our "slant" is still generally Romantic or neo-Romantic with a "taint" of 20th-century dissonance. It's those edgy few who tend to get left out of the mix. The exposure to more progressive repertory is just not there-- and a lot of listeners seem to not care for the style, whether or not they are brave enough to admit that openly.

wrathy wrote: Are there any recording of the above works you can direct me to, or should I just start poking around the vaunted "internets" (not one of my favorite activities unless I know specifically what I am after...).
Let me see what I can do. I've snooped youtube without finding what I wanted. That's the one trouble with under-appreciated composers: they tend to be under-exposed as well!!
wrathy wrote: I would not consider myself under appreciated in the world of concert music.
That's a nice thing to be able to say. It could also be said that being appreciated may be something slightly apart from being decorated or famous or even rich. That's not to overlook the fact that achievement itself thrives on some measure or balance of all of these. But to reach the point of appreciation is to some extent, I suppose, subjective. For some, it means having major artists or ensembles recording and performing your works or having a solid publishing deal. For others, it make take little more than being involved in the university/conservatory circles. And yet for others it may go no further than being able to mock up something clever in DP for a few friends. What's that song: "happiness is whatever you want it to be", however--- positive and constructive feeback is always a good thing.
wrathy wrote: Jazz might be another story!!!
That's interesting, because I've had the impression that the jazz scene is a lot more active and robust-- more daring and less safe-- hungrier for new works than the classical world is-- just because the evolution of jazz has always been forward-looking. Wouldn't marketing a jazz work be a tad easier than marketing a classical work?
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Re: Under appreciated composers

Post by wrathy »

Frodo wrote:
That could be the moment they endeavor to generate a whole new kind of an audience. There are many aspects to this where education and marketing are concerned:

1. The Met may not be able to sustain a robust audience interest in contemporary works, but perhaps this is one way City Opera or Chicago Lyric or Houston Opera or Santa Fe and the like could distinguish themselves.
Houston and Santa Fe are really the main American companies responsible for creating new operas. City Opera, if it can make a real comeback this season, tends to focus on older opera not usually performed ("under-appreciated" :wink: )
Frodo wrote: 2. Those who'd go to hear a modern opera are likely people with more complex personas. They are more likely to be musicians who've had extensive experience listening to modern music. I would even say that they are likely the kinds of people who may not even available to get to the opera house on a night when such an opera is being performed because they might have another gig!
Quite right. And that begs the question, how do you imbue the non-musician with a more "complex persona." More frequent exposure, education, etc. I think the idea of the pre-concert/opera lecture is something that can really help an audience appreciate a work that's got some teeth. I have seen it firsthand!
Frodo wrote: 4. Schools still tend to place more emphasis on baroque, classical, and romantic music training with a slightly-above-obligatory requirement with contemporary literature. Pianists, for example, who are most likely to sustain some kind of performing careers will probably find themselves doing more performances of the concertos of Tchaikowsky, Grieg, and Gershwin rather than, say, Prokofiev Second or Previn's masterful Piano Concerto or Barber's Piano Concerto. Or how about the piano concertos of Ligeti, Liebermann, Cage, Ogden, Babbitt or similar?
Well, I actually think that is changing. I teach at one of NYC's two main conservatories (not the one with the J in the name...) and there is a good deal of contemporary music being taught. Both schools now offer a degree in contemporary performance. Its not equal to the emphasis placed on Classical/Romantic music, but its getting there!
wrathy wrote: I would not consider myself under appreciated in the world of concert music.
Sorry, totally missed on this one. What I MEANT was, I am a non-entity in this field. I am primarily a jazz musician, but I have written some concert music for different ensembles and the like over the years (I have a new commission for a chamber ens this winter). So what I meant was I am a non-entity in this idiom!
wrathy wrote: Jazz might be another story!!!
Frodo wrote: That's interesting, because I've had the impression that the jazz scene is a lot more active and robust-- more daring and less safe-- hungrier for new works than the classical world is-- just because the evolution of jazz has always been forward-looking. Wouldn't marketing a jazz work be a tad easier than marketing a classical work?
I could go on and on for days on this one!
The jazz world is quite fractured, and quite factional. We have Wynton and Jazz @ Lincoln Center which basically plays music from the repertoire. and if it does do something "new" the idea is to sound like something old (Duke for instance). There are people doing new and interesting things, but they tend to be incredibly motivated (read "nuts") or live in Europe. All of the ten CD's that I have put out have all been on European labels. All of the jazz orchestra things I have written have been for ensembles in Europe. American jazz can very very staid and conservative.

I really could get going on this, but I imagine you only have so much time!

best.
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Re: Under appreciated composers

Post by Frodo »

wrathy wrote:
Quite right. And that begs the question, how do you imbue the non-musician with a more "complex persona." More frequent exposure, education, etc. I think the idea of the pre-concert/opera lecture is something that can really help an audience appreciate a work that's got some teeth. I have seen it firsthand!
This is sort of an oddball thought-- (fair warning)-- but while it's not easy to change a public mindset quickly, I think the complexities of certain film scores might play a bigger role in raising the popular perspective to a different level. I say this because I was probably in 3rd or 4th grade when I saw "East of Eden" and "Rebel Without A Cause" on network television. I was probably way too young for the subject matter, but the music caught my attention right away. I wanted to know more about it because it was so different than what I was being given in my weekly piano lessons. Leonard Rosenmann suddenly became a household name for me. However, my teachers shunned my interest in this sort of writing-- at least until I got to college where the complete works of Shoenberg, Berg, and Webern were a required study. That's a long stretch of time to carry a curiosity with no one around to offer any answers. I do give one piano teacher much credit for taking my questions seriously. I'd heard Horowitz play the Skryabin Sonata #5 and I wanted to learn more about the end of the Romantic era. He turned me onto Samuel Barber's Piano Sonata. It was a clear step in the right direction, but it wasn't quite as "out there" as Rosenmann's score-- which I later learned was chock full of 12-tone techniques.

Anyway, I must have been a strange kid where music was concerned. Where contemporary music education was sorely needed and missed for so many years, I had an unmistakable *appetite* from the first exposure. After exposing people to a new style of music (or a new style of anything, for that matter), are things like appetite and curiosity particularly teachable?
wrathy wrote:
Well, I actually think that is changing. I teach at one of NYC's two main conservatories (not the one with the J in the name...) and there is a good deal of contemporary music being taught. Both schools now offer a degree in contemporary performance. Its not equal to the emphasis placed on Classical/Romantic music, but its getting there!
Yes, it is getting there. I wonder if it needs to get there sooner than college, though. Why do we wait until an aspiring musician turns 18 before offering them any serious exposure to modern music? Some clever piano teachers have relied on Bartok's "Mikrokosmos" or some of the works of Kabalevsky for their younger students, but this barely scratches the surface. I even had one teacher tell me that everything written after Bach was a waste of time. How does one battle that kind of thinking? It's like having a history teacher declare any subject after Louis XIV unworthy of being taught.

This effectively keeps the topic of contemporary music set aside for a very select few who survive grade school and high school. There's something very wrong with that, imho.
wrathy wrote: Sorry, totally missed on this one. What I MEANT was, I am a non-entity in this field.
Well, you're certainly appreciated around here! :P
wrathy wrote:
I could go on and on for days on this one!
The jazz world is quite fractured, and quite factional. We have Wynton and Jazz @ Lincoln Center which basically plays music from the repertoire. and if it does do something "new" the idea is to sound like something old (Duke for instance). There are people doing new and interesting things, but they tend to be incredibly motivated (read "nuts") or live in Europe. All of the ten CD's that I have put out have all been on European labels. All of the jazz orchestra things I have written have been for ensembles in Europe. American jazz can very very staid and conservative.

I really could get going on this, but I imagine you only have so much time!

best.
Oh, don't hold back if YOU have time to expound. I think the fractal nature of the jazz business could be a good thing. That means that certain options are wide open. Lincoln Center will more likely cater to tradition even where jazz is concerned. How long did it take them to even consider Jazz At Lincoln Center a viable or a necessary division as part of truly American musical history rather than to focus entirely on western European music?

It's always been that if you wanted to hear the more serious, edgier jazz you have to either go further downtown or further uptown. Lincoln Center will probably always be more of a safe haven where fewer risks are taken. There could be good reason for that where more experimental ventures come with a heftier price tag which could spell serious losses. Doesn't it always boil down to money?

One other thing on my mind: what's American is not always appreciated in America as much as it might be. Jazz is hugely popular in France and Japan, for example. There's a certain intrigue with things which come from foreign places. The Russians were starved for music from other cultures for many, many years-- be it jazz or rock. This alone has driven many musicians to make their names in other countries first before they were really able to make a noise at home. Even in America as pop music struggled against a cultural and generational gap, it took The Beatles arriving in America before the climate had officially changed in a big way. From that point, the evolution of popular music accelerated.

Hollywood didn't help a great deal in the early days of making music-based films. "The Girl Can't Help It" and those Annette Funicello films were a little embarrassing even with pop music. Earlier films which focused on jazz and classical music were more of a spectacle than anything else. It took the age of the documentary to bring any sort of real dignity to the true creative minds and spirits behind the music.

With jazz, there are clear schools of thought, but jazz remains fairly robust in its ability to evolve and to adapt. Lincoln Center may focus on one aspect where Ellington and Gershwin get tons of air time, but then you've got the Harry Connick/Diane Krall branch of popular jazz. On the other hand, there are the likes of McCoy Tyner and Enrico Pieranunzi, who are more to my liking where jazz is concerned. I'm also a big fan of the big band writing of Thad Jones and Bill Holman...

Ugh-- so much to talk about--- so little time!

Cheers!
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Re: Under appreciated composers

Post by wrathy »

Frodo wrote: This is sort of an oddball thought-- (fair warning)-- but while it's not easy to change a public mindset quickly, I think the complexities of certain film scores might play a bigger role in raising the popular perspective to a different level. I say this because I was probably in 3rd or 4th grade when I saw "East of Eden" and "Rebel Without A Cause" on network television. I was probably way too young for the subject matter, but the music caught my attention right away. I wanted to know more about it because it was so different than what I was being given in my weekly piano lessons. Leonard Rosenmann suddenly became a household name for me. However, my teachers shunned my interest in this sort of writing-- at least until I got to college where the complete works of Shoenberg, Berg, and Webern were a required study. That's a long stretch of time to carry a curiosity with no one around to offer any answers. I do give one piano teacher much credit for taking my questions seriously. I'd heard Horowitz play the Skryabin Sonata #5 and I wanted to learn more about the end of the Romantic era. He turned me onto Samuel Barber's Piano Sonata. It was a clear step in the right direction, but it wasn't quite as "out there" as Rosenmann's score-- which I later learned was chock full of 12-tone techniques.
1) Rosenmann: That guy was heavy. The real deal. A friend of mine here in NYC used to work with him, mostly orchestrate and some ghost writing. He has a bunch of his scores and played me some of his concert music. He was really fantastic. They did a concert of his music at NYU last year (but I was working so I missed it...)
2) Film scores propelling the audience forward: Interesting idea. I think you are one out of 100 that would have the ability to catch what was going on in the music. I have never heard a "layperson" comment on the music in a film (unless it was some kind of "song" placed into the film, a trend, I must say, does not thrill me...). So from my perspective, I think it would be hard to have film scores push the audience's ear forward.
Frodo wrote:After exposing people to a new style of music (or a new style of anything, for that matter), are things like appetite and curiosity particularly teachable?
I think they are to an extent. Its about creating new "norms." Here, my kid loves The Magic Flute. Because we play it for him. And Radiohead. And `Trane. (Ok, maybe we are not there with Trane yet, but we are working on it!)

I also teach a music history course, and I have seen the students react to pieces I played early on in the course differently the second time around. Because they are listening differently.
Frodo wrote: This effectively keeps the topic of contemporary music set aside for a very select few who survive grade school and high school. There's something very wrong with that, imho.
I totally agree. Its a hard question to find the answer to. Again, I think a great part of the answer lies in education. Gunther Schuller once told me that (I am paraphrasing) "american kids don't have a cultural hope. In grade school (in Germany) we sang a Bach chorale every AM. Here, kids fingerpaint."
Frodo wrote: Oh, don't hold back if YOU have time to expound. I think the fractal nature of the jazz business could be a good thing. That means that certain options are wide open. Lincoln Center will more likely cater to tradition even where jazz is concerned. How long did it take them to even consider Jazz At Lincoln Center a viable or a necessary division as part of truly American musical history rather than to focus entirely on western European music?

It's always been that if you wanted to hear the more serious, edgier jazz you have to either go further downtown or further uptown. Lincoln Center will probably always be more of a safe haven where fewer risks are taken. There could be good reason for that where more experimental ventures come with a heftier price tag which could spell serious losses. Doesn't it always boil down to money?

One other thing on my mind: what's American is not always appreciated in America as much as it might be. Jazz is hugely popular in France and Japan, for example. There's a certain intrigue with things which come from foreign places. The Russians were starved for music from other cultures for many, many years-- be it jazz or rock. This alone has driven many musicians to make their names in other countries first before they were really able to make a noise at home. Even in America as pop music struggled against a cultural and generational gap, it took The Beatles arriving in America before the climate had officially changed in a big way. From that point, the evolution of popular music accelerated.

Hollywood didn't help a great deal in the early days of making music-based films. "The Girl Can't Help It" and those Annette Funicello films were a little embarrassing even with pop music. Earlier films which focused on jazz and classical music were more of a spectacle than anything else. It took the age of the documentary to bring any sort of real dignity to the true creative minds and spirits behind the music.

With jazz, there are clear schools of thought, but jazz remains fairly robust in its ability to evolve and to adapt. Lincoln Center may focus on one aspect where Ellington and Gershwin get tons of air time, but then you've got the Harry Connick/Diane Krall branch of popular jazz. On the other hand, there are the likes of McCoy Tyner and Enrico Pieranunzi, who are more to my liking where jazz is concerned. I'm also a big fan of the big band writing of Thad Jones and Bill Holman...

Ugh-- so much to talk about--- so little time!

Cheers!
Interesting.
Here is my issue:
In jazz, for me, the best music lies "in the middle." What I mean by this is, the guys who can play changes, but also are more open. What gets the most "play" (festivals, press, records, etc), is the music at the extremes. JALC or the avant-guard. And that always has bothered me, because I just don't think its the most compelling music. Actually, what I find the most compelling jazz is pretty much ignored. There are more things that are "happening" in MY NEIGHBORHOOD than in an entire issue of Downbeat (sorry to lapse into jazz-speak...).

Jazz will never really be appreciated here, and its going to keep moving in the same direction as the economy. I wish I could me more culturally optimistic, but I see no indication that things are changing for the better. Just watch the next three bands that appear on Letterman or Conan or whatever. Watch the next guitar player. I bet he is looking at his hands to see where to put them to play the next chord (sorry, that's really dark, but I can't help myself ce soir.).

It seems to me that we are on the same wavelength on some of these issues. To turn the bus to the extreme right, I was curious about how you have gleaned so much technical knowledge about DP, computers, MIDI, Audio, use of sample libs to get more realistic mock-ups, etc? Just a case of throwing yourself head first into it, learning as you went, or perhaps there was more of a methodology? I do a good deal of commercial work, "synth-e-strating" orchestral music, and do my own things here (like mixing my last record) but I am constantly amazed with the level of the "under-the-hood" knowledge of many of the people here. I am mostly a lurker.....

Just curious. I thought I would ask, since we seemed to be have an interesting conversation, that hopefully has not veered too far off-topic (but I don't think too many visit this area, so its probably cool?).

best.
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Re: Under appreciated composers

Post by Frodo »

wrathy wrote:
It seems to me that we are on the same wavelength on some of these issues. To turn the bus to the extreme right, I was curious about how you have gleaned so much technical knowledge about DP, computers, MIDI, Audio, use of sample libs to get more realistic mock-ups, etc? Just a case of throwing yourself head first into it, learning as you went, or perhaps there was more of a methodology? I do a good deal of commercial work, "synth-e-strating" orchestral music, and do my own things here (like mixing my last record) but I am constantly amazed with the level of the "under-the-hood" knowledge of many of the people here. I am mostly a lurker.....

Just curious. I thought I would ask, since we seemed to be have an interesting conversation, that hopefully has not veered too far off-topic (but I don't think too many visit this area, so its probably cool?).

best.
You're right--- this is a less visited area of the forum, but on some level the conversation feels as if it hovers around the general topic of unappreciated composers even as we begin including ourselves in that number.

It think DAWs in general have enabled many to mock up their tunes and compositions which might not otherwise had been heard at all. The truth is that I don't know how I got into computers, really. I remember when I first moved to LA and saw a lot of folks using computers, my appetite was whetted-- but then sticker shock was a major problem. Most I knew were using ProTools, and this was simply out of the question. I remember seeing a guy using Finale on a Mac II ($2500+) and others getting into the Quadras-- the 950 went for over $7k.

So, I bumped into the Atari machines and SMPTE Trak in the $500 range. (hee-hee)

I think my first Mac was a laptop was a PowerBook 520c and then the 5300. These were not powerful enough to do any audio (at least for the peripherals I had at the time), but one day orchestra libraries appeared. That meant that the days of suffering through cheesy General MIDI sounds were coming to an end. The idea of being able to do virtual instruments brought new hope, but getting those VIs to a workable point took a while. Even now, we know what challenges remain.

The idea of creating my own typeset scores was even more important than doing audio mockups, so it seemed that getting a decent Mac tower was in order. The fastest machine I could afford at the time was the Performa 6400/200Mhz (a whopping 136Mb RAM. Wheee!!). It was about $2800 (eesh), but I really thought I was about to make some progress at last. I went further to buy Finale 1.x at the time-- drove me nuts; and it was $1100 (discounted!!). Couldn't use it at all-- buggy, crash prone, too wonky to get a decent workflow going. I *was* using DP 2.x successfully by that time, but everything was still outboard MIDI with no audio or internal "anything". SCSI drives were all the rage, but a decent setup would have set me back twice what the computer cost.

Things eventually got cheaper, so I skipped the whole Mac era when Steve Jobs left and the model numbers got strange (IIci, IIfx, LC630, 7200, 8500...). I also skipped the whole G3 era because I wanted to research how all this stuff worked before spending any more money. By that point, I was seriously considering chucking the whole computer thing for good. What drove me into the G4 era was the fact that peripherals went universal and nothing I had worked very well any more. It was a basic do-over and quite a money pit. USB and firewire became frustrating new terms and reasons for spending more money to my chagrin.

In a nutshell, I was determined to figure out the geek stuff on my own because customer support was more or less a pipe dream. It also became clear at that time that when developers would boast about what one *could* do, they'd back off from all the caveats, leaving the user hanging out to dry. One CAD app I bought at the time bragged about Mac compatibility, but one of their demo files far exceeded the RAM capacity of any Mac on the market. It was really annoying. I couldn't even run the app no matter how much RAM I had. Frustration led me to near nerdom with getting under the hood of a lot of this stuff.

Yet, I'd be the first to admit that there are those like mhschmieder, Shooshie, sdemott and a host of others who are a lot savvier at this stuff than I could ever be since they've actually written computer code. My computer code days ended in high school with a course in Fortran (remember punch cards?)-- many years before the first Apple ever appeared. I think phantom pains from my Fortran days put me completely off PCs. The Apple GUI made a lot more sense.

The whole geek thing derailed me for a good while. I just wanted to be a musician and to print out orchestral scores. To some extent, I'm still fighting that battle now, but things are way better than they used to be. I'm running pretty large orchestras on a G5 and a MacPro in a small network and a gaggle of PCIx/PCIe eSATA drives (as well as internals).

After all these years, it was only this past February/March when I was able to network the two machines reliably with interfaces and cables--- and it was only about two months ago when I was finally able to get the two machines working reliably over LAN (both audio and MIDI). I've yet to do any heavy mixes with the new setup, but I'm sure it's going to be a lot easier when I do, which should be pretty soon. It's so nice to get rid of all the other hardware and that snake pit of cable to do everything over a SINGLE ethernet cable.

When I think back on it all, getting into the Mac in '97 and even into the Atari 1040 ST back in 1986-87 feels a little embarrassing now. 1987 was 22 (almost 23) years ago and only within the past year have I been able to get my ducks in a row.... just in time for Snow Leopard to completely "diss" the PPC. That means that it might have to be replaced with the next year or so. Otherwise, if it will still run VIs passively I'll keep it as a side car and just add another MacPro to the network. I'm just not sure if I want to get an 8-Core sooner than later or wait for what might turn out to be the 16-cores a year from now. The new iMacs in some ways are putting some of my 2007 MacPro's features to shame.

In any case, doing audio mixes of large orchestral scores has been quite a challenge which I may have conquered at long last. The next 3-4 months will reveal much. However, I have been able to do hundreds of scores in Finale for live performance, and this has really kept me alive over the years.

What I really dread is what developers will "promise" at NAMM in January. This stuff is so tempting. Staying ahead of the curve isn't always wise. Getting behind the curve (and the eight ball) is way too easy to do. Keeping pace somewhere in the middle? That's what I want to figure out.
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Re: Under appreciated composers

Post by wrathy »

This is what I imagined your response would be.

Its quite a similar arc to learning an instrument or how to compose; you just have to do it for a long time!

I have had a Mac since the Performa era, and I think my first version of DP was 3. I think I am pretty well versed, but my weakness lies in streamlining workflow, mixing, and really getting better performances out of the sample libraries. I used to use a slave PC with GIGASTUDIO, but since moving to a MacPro, and VE Pro, everything seems to be living in in the box (although I want to make use of my G4 at some point, maybe as a MachV slave, and maybe get the PC back into the mix with some new libs that I could now get for it, probably less expensive now too since Giga looks like its finished!).

Often I worry about getting things done one, the way I have figured it out, only to think that "there has got to be a better way to do this." I have the same experience every time I open Finale.

I would actually pay for someone to come over to my studio and check it out, take a look at how I have everything working and sus out some of the things I do. Like a DP consultant. I looked for that when 6 was released, as I jumped from 4.6 to 6, and that version was quite troublesome for me. But things seem to be stable now at 6.2.

Ok, thanks again for your input and detailed responses. I am in a sea of Logic users here, and its nice to be able to hear from someone who is using the same software.

Best.
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Re: Under appreciated composers

Post by HCMarkus »

Reading this thread makes me realize how little I know or understand about so much of our music and its history. An amazing world of diversity is available for study and, unlike me, y'all have been (and continue to be) such good students... and teachers! Thank You for the lesson.
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Re: Under appreciated composers

Post by Frodo »

HCMarkus wrote:Reading this thread makes me realize how little I know or understand about so much of our music and its history. An amazing world of diversity is available for study and, unlike me, y'all have been (and continue to be) such good students... and teachers! Thank You for the lesson.
I hear you, HC. With every passing day the only thing I can safely admit is just how little I know. There's so much stuff to learn out there. Each day brings new discoveries and new curiosities without bringing with it any more time to pursue anything adequately.
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Re: Under appreciated composers

Post by HCMarkus »

Frodo wrote:
HCMarkus wrote:Reading this thread makes me realize how little I know or understand about so much of our music and its history. An amazing world of diversity is available for study and, unlike me, y'all have been (and continue to be) such good students... and teachers! Thank You for the lesson.
I hear you, HC. With every passing day the only thing I can safely admit is just how little I know. There's so much stuff to learn out there. Each day brings new discoveries and new curiosities without bringing with it any more time to pursue anything adequately.
Always cracks me up when people claim to be bored. I can't remember ever being bored in my life. There is always so much to explore. On the other hand, my memory ain't what it used to be.

At the risk of going slightly back on topic, I believe composers, as a class, are under-appreciated in today's world. The artist is the person discussed throughout the broader media, and the writer of the song(s) that made the artist famous is recognized only by BMI or ASCAP via royalty checks... thank goodness for small (at least in my case) favors!

PS: Given choice, I'll take a nice fat royalty check over the trapping of fame any day.
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Re: Under appreciated composers

Post by kgdrum »

have any of you heard Shchedrin: Piano Concerto No. 2 ?
I heard this a couple of weeks ago and it blew my mind!
I had never heard of Rodian Shchedrin before hearing this on the NYC local college radio station(WKCR),this is a very interesting piece of work.
I ordered a CD of this I am waiting for so I can hear this again.
This IMO is a Great under appreciated and not well known composer who is worth checking out.
I got this in the meantime good stuff as well:Shchedrin: Old Russian Circus Music/Symphony No.2
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Re: Under appreciated composers

Post by Frodo »

Shchedrin Piano Concerto #2? Never heard of the composer. Good call, kg. I'll have to check him out.

That means there's a Piano Concerto #1!!!


EDIT-- just curious. Found this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U37omdNQiwY

Rodion Ščedrin: Concerto per Pianoforte e Orchestra No.2 (1966) Primo Movimento
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Re: Under appreciated composers

Post by kgdrum »

Frodo wrote:Shchedrin Piano Concerto #2? Never heard of the composer. Good call, kg. I'll have to check him out.

That means there's a Piano Concerto #1!!!


EDIT-- just curious. Found this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U37omdNQiwY

Rodion Ščedrin: Concerto per Pianoforte e Orchestra No.2 (1966) Primo Movimento

good find Frodo
nice music isn't it? I find him very interesting :wink:
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Re: Under appreciated composers

Post by Frodo »

Very nice, indeed. I really enjoy it when composers find ways to keep the listener listening for the next event and the next and the next..... It's like what great story telling should do. I love his orchestral "sound" and textures, too.
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Re: Under appreciated composers

Post by kgdrum »

his string voicing are amazing,very stimulating ,I hear elements of Jazz,modern classical mixed together in ways I have not heard before with such authority and conviction.
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Re: Under appreciated composers

Post by Frodo »

kgdrum wrote:his string voicing are amazing,very stimulating ,I hear elements of Jazz,modern classical mixed together in ways I have not heard before with such authority and conviction.
Yeah, I really enjoy blend of color, texture, and all the various stylistic influences that peek through. I'm really going to have to take some time to really dig into this work.
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