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Do you want MOTU to develop notation apps? StaffPad-iPadPro

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Do you want MOTU to develop notation apps? StaffPad-iPadPro

Postby Steve Steele » Fri Dec 04, 2015 1:17 pm

Very serious question. How do you feel about MOTU developing the next StaffPad for the iPad Pro?

I'm well aware that iOS is not OS X or Windows, and an A9 (or A10) is not an i5, but good developers find a way. Apple will need to improve iOS, so let's hope they do.

Looking at StaffPad on a well equipped Surface has me feeling like the technology/creative wall may be coming down.

I need a pen/paper, pen/tablet based system that will read my bad handwriting, convert it into vector based music notation on the spot and play my composition back using sophisticated VIs.

As a composer this has been my dream. After all these years I still feel anxiety when I switch from guitar or piano to a DAW. No matter how well my rig and template are tweaked, until I get the same feeling I get when playing a real instrument (for either performing or composing), I will forever feel held back.

Would you like to see MOTU enter into the iPad Pro stylus based music notation sweepstakes? I sure the hell would. MOTU does things right most of the time (look for an upcoming post where I compare working in DP, Cubase and Logic for a month each), and I'd like to see what they can do with this up and coming creative boon.

A MOTU OS X, Windows, iOS notation app can only benefit DP. Quickscribe isn't as bad as I thought after trying some of the competition's score editors. I feel strongly if DP were to have a nearly full featured, or linked to a full featured notation editor, it would only improve DP's already outstanding workflow.

I'm a little afraid that Steinberg is going to jump on a tablet based notation app quickly. And I'd hate to see MOTU lose any more marketshare.

So, how do you feel about MOTU developing the next StaffPad for the iPad Pro? Who do you trust to do this right? Finale? Sibelius? Steinberg? StaffPad for iOS (not gonna happen). MOTU?

Let me hear from you!

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Re: Do you want MOTU to develop notation apps? StaffPad-iPad

Postby MIDI Life Crisis » Fri Dec 04, 2015 1:48 pm

MOTU doesn't do notation as a main focus. Quickscribe is an able (but severely limited) notation feature in DP and not capable of moderate to advanced notation. The Notation Window in DP is also more of an orphan from past versions and hasn't received any updates for many years now.

Those two things combined bring me to the conclusion that MOTU is not a good candidate for developing a robust and widely useful notation app on any device. For them to do so would mean integration with DP (otherwise it really is akin to pissing in the wind given the competition).

I'd look to Finale or Sibelius for that, or hoping the existing StaffPad for MS Surface get ported to the iPad.

Not that I'm opposed to your desires. I would love to see MOTU include a great notation app in their line-up, both for mobile devices as well as on a desktop and/or included in DP. But until we see them move seriously in that direction, I just don't see a notation app as even a remote possibility for their future.

:unicorn:

Thanks for posting!
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Re: Do you want MOTU to develop notation apps? StaffPad-iPad

Postby Steve Steele » Fri Dec 04, 2015 3:19 pm

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:MOTU doesn't do notation as a main focus. Quickscribe is an able (but severely limited) notation feature in DP and not capable of moderate to advanced notation. The Notation Window in DP is also more of an orphan from past versions and hasn't received any updates for many years now.

Those two things combined bring me to the conclusion that MOTU is not a good candidate for developing a robust and widely useful notation app on any device. For them to do so would mean integration with DP (otherwise it really is akin to pissing in the wind given the competition).

I'd look to Finale or Sibelius for that, or hoping the existing StaffPad for MS Surface get ported to the iPad.

Not that I'm opposed to your desires. I would love to see MOTU include a great notation app in their line-up, both for mobile devices as well as on a desktop and/or included in DP. But until we see them move seriously in that direction, I just don't see a notation app as even a remote possibility for their future.

:unicorn:

Thanks for posting!


MLC - I've been using DP since v1.7. Actually when it was Performer. The Notation editor has never changed! :D

Regardless, why not MOTU? MOTU knows as well as anyone what a disappointment the notation app scene is. Finale isn't going to do it. Have you seen their current release? Avid probably won't do it. The StaffPad folks have basically said they don't want to deal with iOS. Reminds me of when Acid came out. PreSounus, I could see them doing something light but not right.

So maybe Steinberg. But that just gives them another reason to claim more market share away from DP.

Remember FreeStyle? MOTU has the resources to turn out a nice product ahead of it's time if they deemed it a priority.

Any company smart enough could steal the notation app market away in very little time. Whoever builds a cross platform, tablet and desktop notation app duo, and does it right would win the market. With all the mistakes the main companies keep making (people are still loyal to Finale - I hated it back in 1993), the market is wide open and ready to be had.

In a way MOTU is a bit like Apple. They rely on hardware to drive sales. It's too bad in a way because IMO, they have the best DAW and with the right planning and resources they could make the next great app. If StaffPad was cross-platform, I bet musicians and educators buying an iPad Pro would buy it just to have it. That and forScore.

I'm just really tired of what's currently available. So, I'm trying to make some noise.
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Re: Do you want MOTU to develop notation apps? StaffPad-iPad

Postby MIDI Life Crisis » Fri Dec 04, 2015 3:28 pm

I'm totally on your side with that. I make A LOT of noise over at Make Music's site and have made even more noise here about the notational aspects of DP, but it just doesn't seem to be a direction they are going in. Yeah, hardware... Can't be bootlegged.

If it was relatively easy and reasonably lucrative to develop a notation app, I would think someone would already have jumped on it. In fact, it is not that easy. A lot of resources from many companies have gone towards that end and there are still a lot of problems in the apps that are out there. Yes, I have F2014.5 running on my machine currently, but have yet to do a big project in it - only a few arrangements for small ensembles. I detest Sibelius (the app, not the composer...). Then again, I started with Dr. T on an Atari and a dot matrix printer waaaaaaay back when.Wow, has it been 30+ years already? And even before that, in 1977/78 I remember seeing a music "printing" program (pre-sequencing and MIDI days) and while things are light years ahead now, they still are quite buggy and unreliable.

Yes, I would strongly support MOTU efforts in that direction. I just don't see it happenin'
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Re: Do you want MOTU to develop notation apps? StaffPad-iPad

Postby bayswater » Fri Dec 04, 2015 6:34 pm

It's always hard to figure out what MOTU's priorities are. Right now, it seems to be hardware. But sooner or later they need to get into tablets, and maybe notation would be as good a place to start as any. I've tried a few iPad notation apps and didn't take to any of them.

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Re: Do you want MOTU to develop notation apps? StaffPad-iPad

Postby mikehalloran » Fri Dec 04, 2015 6:46 pm

(Freestyle was brilliant. Bring it back ! )
Yes!
If it was relatively easy and reasonably lucrative to develop a notation app, I would think someone would already have jumped on it. In fact, it is not that easy.
Deems Taylor (December 22, 1885 – July 3, 1966) hit the nail on the head in the 1930s when he wrote that music is never written – it is drawn. Although he was speaking in the context of the development of music i. e. that it could not become complex until there was a way to communicate this, it applies to the development of notation software.

You have a complex set of instructions to draw the simplest music – make it complex and the code is extremely complicated. Anyone unclear on that concept need only look at LilyPond. Sure, it's free but… Yikes!

http://www.lilypond.org/text-input.html

I have four volumes of Deems Taylor's collected essays and radio talks. He disliked jazz, hated rock 'n roll... I can only imagine what he would think of notation software and making music on our computers.
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Re: Do you want MOTU to develop notation apps? StaffPad-iPad

Postby ed belknap » Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:42 am

Do I want MOTU to develop notation apps? Not necessarily; I'd much prefer they simply support the notation apps they already developed (and subsequently orphaned)!!!!
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Re: Do you want MOTU to develop notation apps? StaffPad-iPad

Postby stubbsonic » Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:19 am

On one hand, I think MOTU would have the vision and skills to do it justice-- especially if they consulted with US before they went to the drawing board. On the other hand, I'd rather see them get ALL of DP completely dialed in-- including adding just a few touches & tweaks to QuickScribe (slurs, and ability to insert measure spacing controls throughout, line-breaks and page breaks. Maybe even insert graphics.

Honestly, I'd rather MOTU make a MIDI-only sequencer for iPad.

I wish I new more about FreeStyle. I'd heard of it, but had never tried it. Looks intriguing.
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Re: Do you want MOTU to develop notation apps? StaffPad-iPad

Postby mikehalloran » Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:03 am

I jumped on Notion for iOS in the beginning (when it was free). It was terrible so I ignored it for years. Well, nowadays it works and isn't half bad. You don't need Notion 6 as it can export the results via MusicXML and open in your notation app of choice. $14.99.

https://www.presonus.com/products/Notion-for-iOS

Notion 6 isn't that bad if you can stand the workflow (not I). The included VIs are head and shoulder above those included with anything else and it has a movie window. Crossgrade is $79 when I bought it a few months ago. Otherwise $149.
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Re: Do you want MOTU to develop notation apps? StaffPad-iPad

Postby James Steele » Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:32 am

Please oh please just fix DP Control. Got it working today with every page except the mixer page. Just switching to that force quits DP Control. But heck. I've got transport control and that's something. Can also change chunks again and couldn't before.
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Re: Do you want MOTU to develop notation apps? StaffPad-iPad

Postby mhschmieder » Tue Sep 19, 2017 12:17 pm

I almost bought Mosaic way back, thinking it would eventually make the cut to OS X. It would have had a short life in my production work had I bought it.

Several on this forum did own the product back in OS9 days (I didn't have a home computer until a year after OS X came on-line), and loved it.

Not sure how much of that code base (or thought base) has made it into recent DP upgrades of Quickscribe.
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