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Building an Orchestral System with DP - Film and Music editi

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Discussions about composing, arranging, orchestration, songwriting, theory and the art of creating music in all forms from orchestral film scores to pop/rock.

Building an Orchestral System with DP - Film and Music editi

Postby pneron » Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:38 am

Dear DP Colleagues

I am trying to build a new Orchestral system for Film and Music editing - pre & post.

The specs that I am considering right now would consist of:

1) High End Master Computer DAW (OSX base - Mac Pro 6 Core)
2) Slave Computer (High End Windows PC base).

I do not have much experience in latest "Vienna vs Kontakt" discussions, but hoping you could you suggest best Orchestral plugins/samplers, etc as well as the best "Workflows/Intergation" with DP?

Music notation, Classical, Rock/Blues, Jazz, Pop/R&B and electronic music are key to my environment.


Appreciate the feedback

Philippe
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Re: Building an Orchestral System with DP - Film and Music e

Postby stubbsonic » Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:46 am

I've been struggling along with Kontakt 5's orchestral instruments and have been often disappointed with those sounds. I've come to realize I won't be really satisfied until I can cross a certain quality threshold. My main way of knowing these products is by checking out demos. Garritan and SoundTank just sound terrible to me.

LA Scoring Strings sounds quite good to me. I'm not sure what else I'll be able to afford. But for now, I have to wait until some project comes along that will help pay for something nicer.

DP's notation is pretty rudimentary, but I've gotten along with it for a while-- hand-writing on it at times. The notation world is changing. Long-time Finale users are grumbling over recent changes. I'll be curious what they might suggest.
RMBP (2.6 i7), FF800, OS 10.10.5, DP8, Kontakt, Reaktor, K2661S, K2500RS, iPad4, (also an old sawtooth G4 with a UAD-1 for legacy apps).

http://www.jonstubbsmusic.com
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Re: Building an Orchestral System with DP - Film and Music e

Postby mikehalloran » Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:16 am

SoundTank
Do you mean SampleTank?

I have Garritan GPO 5, SampleTank and Miroslav Philharmonik II. I just installed NI Komplete 11 but haven't really gotten into it yet. I've a few others.

Lots of film scores are done with these libraries which is good and bad. There are certainly ways to use these so you don't sound like everyone else but, like any creative effort, it takes a bit of work.

Absolutely run demos and listen. There's no magic, "buy this for instant success" library.
July 2010 iMac 2.93G i7 Quad, OWC eSATA mod, 32G RAM, OS 10.13
828mkII FW; MOTU MTP/AV USB with Firmware 2.0.1; DP 9.13, 9.5; IK-NI-Izotope-PSP-Garritan Antares, 32Lives, JBridge, MachFive 3.2.1
LogicPro X 10.3, Finale 25.4.1, 2014.5, Encore 5.0.7, Notion 6, Overture 5, TwistedWave, DSP-Q 4.4, QuickTime Pro 7.6.6, SmartScore Pro X2 10.5.5, Toast 15
Test machine: G4-1K Dual Processor: OS 10.4.11 / OS 9.2.2; DP 5.13; Encore 5.05 & 4.5.5; Toast 9.07b, legacy apps
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Re: Building an Orchestral System with DP - Film and Music e

Postby mikehalloran » Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:28 am

Long-time Finale users are grumbling over recent changes. I'll be curious what they might suggest.
Oh hell yes! Finale got rid of the Movie window forcing one to use Rewire instead.

Overture 5 (Sonic Scores) and Notion are doing their best to woo Finale users with their implementation of the Movie window. And there's always Sibelius, like it or not (I don't). All have fully functional 30-day demos. Finale doesn't let you download the Garritan instruments during the demo period but is otherwise functional. Overture promises new libraries but they aren't available yet.
https://sonicscores.com/overture/
Notion has many gigs of libraries and those download with the demo. I don't like the workflow but many do.
https://www.presonus.com/products/Notion

DP's QuickScribe notation is basic but it exists. DP 9 also lets you export as MusicXML 3.0 for opening in a notation program that supports it. Finale has the best MusicXML support—as they should since its inventor, Michael Good, is now a VP.
July 2010 iMac 2.93G i7 Quad, OWC eSATA mod, 32G RAM, OS 10.13
828mkII FW; MOTU MTP/AV USB with Firmware 2.0.1; DP 9.13, 9.5; IK-NI-Izotope-PSP-Garritan Antares, 32Lives, JBridge, MachFive 3.2.1
LogicPro X 10.3, Finale 25.4.1, 2014.5, Encore 5.0.7, Notion 6, Overture 5, TwistedWave, DSP-Q 4.4, QuickTime Pro 7.6.6, SmartScore Pro X2 10.5.5, Toast 15
Test machine: G4-1K Dual Processor: OS 10.4.11 / OS 9.2.2; DP 5.13; Encore 5.05 & 4.5.5; Toast 9.07b, legacy apps
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Re: Building an Orchestral System with DP - Film and Music e

Postby pneron » Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:52 am

Thank you for this info !
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Re: Building an Orchestral System with DP - Film and Music e

Postby stubbsonic » Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:22 am

Oop. Yes, SampleTank.

I'll just add that quite a bit goes into making a PLAYABLE library. I'll just add that if the players, engineers, editors, and project managers all understand how samplers work and have enough experience with them, they can keep unplayable samples out of the mix.

But having tried to play simple melodies where every note has a slow attack and crescendo at the front, it means they weren't thinking "How would I play this note if I was playing a melodic line?" They are thinking, "I'm playing a beautiful whole note with a fermata." Those notes just don't work when you are playing a line.

Also, listen for releases. In the demos you can hear whether the note releases sound natural.

Trombones almost always sound farty and terrible. (I play trombone, so I know what they should sound like.)

It's not impossible to get a good playable library at different budget levels. SampleTank and Garritan AINT IT.
RMBP (2.6 i7), FF800, OS 10.10.5, DP8, Kontakt, Reaktor, K2661S, K2500RS, iPad4, (also an old sawtooth G4 with a UAD-1 for legacy apps).

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Re: Building an Orchestral System with DP - Film and Music e

Postby pneron » Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:23 pm

understood...thanks again
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Re: Building an Orchestral System with DP - Film and Music e

Postby mikehalloran » Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:33 pm

Miroslav Philharmonik II is not bad. It runs standalone or in SampleTank 3 (including the free version IIRC). One can do a lot worse for a basic orchestral library—like Miroslav 1 which I also had.

Most of us are looking for the ideal solo library for the instrument we know best. For me, it is upright & electric basses and cello. Still looking for a solo upright bass that I don't hate.
July 2010 iMac 2.93G i7 Quad, OWC eSATA mod, 32G RAM, OS 10.13
828mkII FW; MOTU MTP/AV USB with Firmware 2.0.1; DP 9.13, 9.5; IK-NI-Izotope-PSP-Garritan Antares, 32Lives, JBridge, MachFive 3.2.1
LogicPro X 10.3, Finale 25.4.1, 2014.5, Encore 5.0.7, Notion 6, Overture 5, TwistedWave, DSP-Q 4.4, QuickTime Pro 7.6.6, SmartScore Pro X2 10.5.5, Toast 15
Test machine: G4-1K Dual Processor: OS 10.4.11 / OS 9.2.2; DP 5.13; Encore 5.05 & 4.5.5; Toast 9.07b, legacy apps
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Re: Building an Orchestral System with DP - Film and Music e

Postby pneron » Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:49 pm

Hi Mike,

have you tried spectrasonics trilian bass module software options?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYU93OtvzjA
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Re: Building an Orchestral System with DP - Film and Music e

Postby stubbsonic » Thu Jan 05, 2017 4:06 pm

Listening to the Miroslav Philharmonik 2 demos now and am very impressed. The stuff I heard on my iPad version of SampleTank was pretty sad.

$320 (to updated from another IK product) is pretty reasonable. Since this sale goes until Jan 8, I think I might move on this. Need to research and listen to the demos some more.

I'll probably dump some of the Kontakt library to make space.
RMBP (2.6 i7), FF800, OS 10.10.5, DP8, Kontakt, Reaktor, K2661S, K2500RS, iPad4, (also an old sawtooth G4 with a UAD-1 for legacy apps).

http://www.jonstubbsmusic.com
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Re: Building an Orchestral System with DP - Film and Music e

Postby stubbsonic » Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:47 pm

I was listening to the section specific demos and those brass demos were unacceptable to me. Maybe I have an IK budget, but Vienna tastes.
RMBP (2.6 i7), FF800, OS 10.10.5, DP8, Kontakt, Reaktor, K2661S, K2500RS, iPad4, (also an old sawtooth G4 with a UAD-1 for legacy apps).

http://www.jonstubbsmusic.com
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Re: Building an Orchestral System with DP - Film and Music e

Postby pneron » Fri Jan 06, 2017 4:05 pm

Thanks everyone, this information has been very helpful
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