new 828mk3 hybrid~how do I get signal from daw to device?

[HARDDRlVER]

This is a very nice unit that replaces an ancient Edirol ua-101.
I believe I have it hooked up correctly as I can see I can record a MIDI or analog signal into a track.
But for the life of me, I can't figure out how to route that signal back to the 828.
I have no analog or digital outputs connected to it. I intend to monitor the Sonar platinum signal with headphones, so I can't hear a thing. I can see playback on the tracks.
I know it's must be a simple answer, I'm just not finding it.
Like...what has to be selected on the output of the track and what has to be selected on the 828 for me to hear it through the headphones.
I hope I've been thorough enough.
Hoping there's a few 828 users out there who can lead me out of the darkness.

Thank you for taking a look.
Joni

[terrybritton]

Take a look at this post to see basically how you route output from the DAW to the 828. Ask me if you have any more questions.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=63504&p=542727#p542727

For your situation, likely setting the Phones source to "Mains" in the MOTU Audio Control Panel will do the trick, though.

Terry

[mikehalloran]

Your parallel threads are probably going to be merged.

[HARDDRlVER]

*Terrybritton*
That post didn't answer anything for me.
motu has this 'audio console' thing that shows an assortment of choices that post didn't seem to address. I suppose a seasoned motu user might make sense of it but my ability to figure out what was said totally escapes me.
Anyway, this 'audio desk' has these choices
Phone assign (choices)
Optical (choices)
Main out assign (choices)
Return assign (choices)

Then in the daw, in the output section there's a Miriam of choices.

That post also warns about feedback looping. I wouldn't know how to do that if I tried.

I just want to hear my daw through my headphones.

The edirol ua-101 was fairly simple, but then, it was a simple interface.
Just wondering why the 828 wouldn't be set up this way, out of the box?
It's obvious the listener is gonna want to hear what's coming from the daw.

*mike*
Not sure what you meant by that...parallel...merging...
Guess I'm too much of a newbie to understand all that motu lingo.
Did I do something I shouldn't have?
I wouldn't be surprised

[terrybritton]

*Terrybritton*
That post didn't answer anything for me.
motu has this 'audio console' thing that shows an assortment of choices that post didn't seem to address. I suppose a seasoned motu user might make sense of it but my ability to figure out what was said totally escapes me.
Anyway, this 'audio desk' has these choices
Phone assign (choices)
Optical (choices)
Main out assign (choices)
Return assign (choices)

Then in the daw, in the output section there's a Miriam of choices.

That post also warns about feedback looping. I wouldn't know how to do that if I tried.

I just want to hear my daw through my headphones.

The edirol ua-101 was fairly simple, but then, it was a simple interface.
Just wondering why the 828 wouldn't be set up this way, out of the box?
It's obvious the listener is gonna want to hear what's coming from the daw.

*mike*
Not sure what you meant by that...parallel...merging...
Guess I'm too much of a newbie to understand all that motu lingo.
Did I do something I shouldn't have?
I wouldn't be surprised

Sorry, you are correct -- that post addressed a situation where one was sending to ports OTHER than main-out or phones. I'll check my notes, but I'm pretty sure you can output directly to phones via channels 9+10, and if not those, then 11/12 or 13/14. I'll be back in a bit after I can consult those notes.

That Motu Audio Console's list of choices for the phones includes "Main", which simply sends anything you send out channels 1+2 (mains) out to the phone jacks also.

Terry

[HARDDRlVER]

I believe I may have stumbled across it accidentally, and by that I mean, I can't tell you what I did to make it work in order to help someone else who might have the same issue.
The problem seemed corrected until I found that MIDI audio wasn't getting to the headphones although the mic was.
You see, I have several other things to hook up to the 828. It will be packed full with analog and digital gear. Both a days will serve as toslink, each handling the output of a Roland xv5080 rack synth. Then the spdif will handle the output of a focus rite voice master pro platinum mic pretty amp. Lastely, the analog pairs will handle an alesis dmpro that's running a Yamaha dtxplorer kit, a Roland vg88 guitar synth and alesis 8.1 keyboard, which I use as my controller.
When I first fired the 828 up, I only needed 1 optical and one analog to figure things out, which I think I've figured the basics.
The reason I wasn't getting audio from my toslink rack synth is, somewhere in the 828 settings the a and b toslink were set to mute.

NOW...I might be able to get to the starting gate.

I've invested a poor man's fortune since December and June now, I think I can finally get somewhere.
In December sonar had a great sale on their platinum daw, free lifetime updates. I also got a deal on waves horizon bundle as well as the abbey road collection.

Crossing my fingers.

Thanks guys.

Joni

[HARDDRlVER]

A a and just like that, I lose it. Still have optical audio coming through but lost analog mic to the headphones.

Ugh...

I noticed there's an option somewhere to save the configuration...have to check that

[terrybritton]

Yes, the CueMix software makes all this a lot easier once you get used to its layered-mixes approach. I hope you are using that!

I bit at the Cakewalk upgrades-for-life offer as well to upgrade my copy of Platinum to that. Nice deal! They sure pump out the updates!!!

I really should use it more often, but DP has my attention lately.

Platinum allows you to name/label all the inputs and outputs - definitely sit down and take the time to do that if you hadn't already!

Terry

[HARDDRlVER]

I've pushed and twisted enough buttons that I've accidentally stumbled upon something that works. I know it's hanging by a thread. I saved the setting in cuemix.
Cuemix is nothing if not confusing. Holy moly!

[terrybritton]

I'll second that. It definitely takes a while to get the hang of their layered approach in the mixes tab.

Did you see the video? It is somewhat helpful when new to it all.

I've been using it for a couple of years now, so if you have any questions I'm happy to try and answer them.

Terry

[HARDDRlVER]

Thank you, Terry for your kind offer to help me with this. I'll see to it that you end up highly frustrated, at the least.
As for the video, it's the 1st thing I looked for when I had finally 'got it' today. I had recorded some MIDI yesterday. Then tried to add a simple vocal. I could see the daw got the mic signal, and on playback I could see the mic playback was getting back to the 828 but I was only hearing the MIDI audio. I'm guessing it had something to do with a 'monitor' set. Not quite sure because I was clicking everything. But I finally heard both signals in my headphones.
Then trying to add some cuemix effects, I found...and just as quickly, lost it again.
Tricky.
One thing that has me is on playback, I can't find the fader for what was mic 1. I can see one for the MIDI signal and can use it, but the mic signal is coming in but I don't know where it's landing.
But once I had all the ducks in a row, I saved the settings.
My previous interface was an Edirol ua101. No on board effects.
I can easily see the benefit to having the effects built in. 1, of course is the latency factor. I have the buffer as far down as it will go and on my Sony i7 4core, 8gb ram 7200rpm laptop, I've yet to hear any glitches. I'm sure I will along the way as tracks and plug-ins get added on, but I guess what I'm saying is, this 828mk3 hybrid usb/fw was a very nice choice. Loving it already. Motu really needs to get the usb3 compatibility issue behind them. It's a thorn in their side. I'm having to route both the 828 and MIDI express XT usb through a usb2 powered hub, (motu support said that's the only way the MIDI express will work) and, I only have one usb2 slot on my laptop. I have 2 usb3 slots and fw, so my guess is the hub's addition is gonna play a frustrating part in latency issues as things get thick.
Terry, I see you also have an 828. Is it the newest one? I also noticed you like holding onto the legacy stuff, especially the tx81z, my 1st rack synth.
Sorry, at 65 (in august) my mind starts to jump multiple tracks.

Cuemix, right.
Anyone who's recording is gonna want to hear some sort of effect as they're tracking vocals and such, so to include that in the unit is great. I know the 828 has the added benefit of being used in a live performance so...two birds, one stone, I guess.
I have no intention of wanting those effects printed on the track, and so far I think I've got that set right.
And on playback, it's a dry signal. Perfect. Thing is, going from here...adding another vocal, say...how DO I add the onboard reverb to the pre recorded track, and reverb on the new signal (without printing it)? You follow that?

I did watch the video several times, but in all honesty, it's more of an overview than a lesson. What it did show me was just how much, how convoluted cue mix really is...all those layers.

[terrybritton]

I turn 65 in October, so I'm not far behind you!

Yes, I have the 828 mk3 hybrid. I had originally tried it with Firewire, trying to daisy-chain the 828 with an Ultralite mk3 hybrid unit, but during that time I was having various problems (which may or may not have been due to the Firewire...) I switched to using the USB (and thus gave up on the daisy-chaining idea) and most problems went away.

I now think I was actually having voltage drop issues from local "brownouts", which were making me lose sync and cause the 828 to re-set the sample rate, making a high whistle when it did, sometimes crashing the 828 AND computer. I took other devices off that circuit breaker's line by unplugging them from the various sockets in the room and the problems disappeared. (All the audio and computers comes off one outlet to eliminate all hum issues, using daisy-chained power conditioners and surge protectors. It was the OTHER things plugged into that room's breaker that were causing the problems. Things like lamps, a room fan. Dumb stuff.)

BTW - Mike Halloran (whose every utterance I trust entirely!) was just pointing out that a powered USB hub adds no latency whatsoever, so do not worry about that being a weak link. USB-2 is PLENTY adequate for audio and MIDI.

If you did want to print the reverb to a different track, that is easy. It comes in via one of the high-numbered channels above the ADAT ones, if I recall correctly, as a special return.

To hear the reverb in CueMix on the playback, you'd need to set up a loopback like I was discussing in that other thread I shared with you, turning the output essentially back into being an input. Just watch for those feedback loops! If you need more explanation, let me know, but rest assured, it is far easier to simply drop a Reverb VST into the Master output or an AUX effects chain (and is more what you would use later on anyway). IMHO, at the end of the day, the CueMix Reverb effect is best for adjusting a monitor mix so it can bring out an instrumentalist's monitor mix "sound" in a way approximating what a final actual mix would be like. Lots of vocalists and solo instrumentalists like hearing some reverb on their monitor mix!

Terry

[HARDDRlVER]

My feelings exactly, about wanting to hear 'some kind of reverb' when tracking. I have absolutely no desire to ever print any effect that's built into the 828. That will all be handled by the daw. And just the same as wanting a reverb in my headphones when I track, I also want to hear the playback vocals with a same bit of verb. So using a daw verb as you suggested is probably the more simple way to go, as you also suggested.
Thank you

Joni