Hi guys, First post from little 'ol me - I'm forwarding a message I posted up on Gearslutz, but really could use some help with this issue from the wider community...
Has anyone else experienced issues with the MOTU MIDI Express XT? Ever since I've bought this unit its pretty much been a pandora's box (great at what it does, but really REALLY dodgy drivers), and wondered if anyone else is having fatal BSODS/Crashes? Before I installed this thing, my machine never crashed, and if I leave the MIDI Express XT switched off then I can continue like normal.
Basically, long story short, but after about an hour of use from the MIDI Express there's always a fatal memory stack that causes Windows to BSOD with an irql_not_less_or_equal error. No matter what port I use (USB2 or USB3), it seems to cause the same issue. I've tried memtest for 24 hours without memory issues, and the system is pretty solid - it's 8 core with a temp of roughly 31 celsius, SSD drive, P8Z68-V PRO/GEN3 motherboard.
Initially I thought that my computer was going down, but after some research I ran Driver Verifier and Windows Debugger on all drivers I had installed on the machine and after a bluescreen it immediately pointed the issue towards MotuUsb64.sys.
Does anyone have any suggestions? I did one search online for MotuUsb64.sys and my version is the latest for the "MOTU MIDI Installer" at 4.0.5.7483, however there is another later version of the file that comes with "MOTU Audio Installer" at 4.0.5.9644. Is it worth me trying the alternative?
For interests sake I've attached a debug log:
BugCheck C9, {21f, fffff88001d03910, fffff98008d84c10, 0}
Unable to load image \SystemRoot\System32\Drivers\MotuUsb64.sys, Win32 error 0n2
*** WARNING: Unable to verify timestamp for MotuUsb64.sys
*** ERROR: Module load completed but symbols could not be loaded for MotuUsb64.sys
Probably caused by : MotuUsb64.sys ( MotuUsb64+5910 )
Fatal BSOD's with USB and MOTU MIDI Express XT
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Discussion related to installation, configuration and use of MOTU hardware such as MIDI interfaces, audio interfaces, etc. with Windows
Discussion related to installation, configuration and use of MOTU hardware such as MIDI interfaces, audio interfaces, etc. with Windows
Re: Fatal BSOD's with USB and MOTU MIDI Express XT
Still no response from MOTU's support team. I think I'm on the edge of requesting a refund as it's simply not a viable option with these BSOD's. It's a great unit, but the driver's are terrible... anyone have any ideas?
I've tried to remove all other USB devices on various ports to see if that made a difference, with only the MIDI Express XT enabled. I also changed MIDI cables from the one it was supplied with. I've removed all antivirus and firewall software aside from the inbuilt Windows Defender & Firewall. I decided to update motuusb64.sys to 4.0.5.9644 (cleaned the old drivers). Finally I've updated my bios to the latest version. Unfortunately still no luck with these changes - the system last for about an hour and then crashed as per usual.
RMA?
I've tried to remove all other USB devices on various ports to see if that made a difference, with only the MIDI Express XT enabled. I also changed MIDI cables from the one it was supplied with. I've removed all antivirus and firewall software aside from the inbuilt Windows Defender & Firewall. I decided to update motuusb64.sys to 4.0.5.9644 (cleaned the old drivers). Finally I've updated my bios to the latest version. Unfortunately still no luck with these changes - the system last for about an hour and then crashed as per usual.
RMA?
Re: Fatal BSOD's with USB and MOTU MIDI Express XT
Despite having two Express 128 units, I currently have no MIDI I/Os which is a complete disaster!
MOTU recommended that I use the 4.0.5.7483 driver, but is causes BSOD on installation and BSOD when connecting either of the Express 128s!
Did you get any sort of satisfactory resolution???
MOTU recommended that I use the 4.0.5.7483 driver, but is causes BSOD on installation and BSOD when connecting either of the Express 128s!
Did you get any sort of satisfactory resolution???
Re: Fatal BSOD's with USB and MOTU MIDI Express XT
Hi MaleXLR,
Unfortunately not. I sent the last one requesting an RMA number to return the unit but the support ticket is still unread from Christmas. I'm going to try and create another ticket to link to the original support question but it's a bit ridiculous of MOTU to behave like this. As far as I'm concerned it should work exactly the same way on all operating systems, however from research it would appear that most of the driver developers are more experienced with the Mac, and hence this problem now.
The only thing I could do was to use USB-3, and this stops the BSOD... however because my motherboard requires a usb-3 driver to enable these I found that MIDI then becomes unusable as the notes I play pause and then fire all at once in one serialized heap, even though I'm only playing say 3 notes at once. I must add that it's only the MOTU unit that seems to be playing bad with it, and even my old Midisport 4x4 works without any delay or issues.
Unfortunately not. I sent the last one requesting an RMA number to return the unit but the support ticket is still unread from Christmas. I'm going to try and create another ticket to link to the original support question but it's a bit ridiculous of MOTU to behave like this. As far as I'm concerned it should work exactly the same way on all operating systems, however from research it would appear that most of the driver developers are more experienced with the Mac, and hence this problem now.
The only thing I could do was to use USB-3, and this stops the BSOD... however because my motherboard requires a usb-3 driver to enable these I found that MIDI then becomes unusable as the notes I play pause and then fire all at once in one serialized heap, even though I'm only playing say 3 notes at once. I must add that it's only the MOTU unit that seems to be playing bad with it, and even my old Midisport 4x4 works without any delay or issues.
Re: Fatal BSOD's with USB and MOTU MIDI Express XT
This might be better by e-mail, but here goes…
After three months of utter frustration, yesterday was the day that I admitted defeat, packaged up my computer, MOTU 896Mk3 and 2 x MOTU MIDI Express 128s to go to see real IT professionals.
Sadly, when I got there the computer chose that moment to curl up its toes and not even boot up and cycled around Windows repair options, with an occasional BSOD. System Restore would not work so the only option was a complete re-install… Bugger.
Just in case there are similarities – my specs – Gigabyte GA-Z97X-UD3H, i7, 32GB RAM, 2 x 250GB SSD (RAID1), 2 x 3TB HDD (RAID1), GTX760 Graphics, PCIe TI Firewire card, PCI Powercore card.
I am currently 20% reloaded and all the MOTU units have been running without fault and without BSOD for 12 hours.
Apart from the missing software and drivers and in order of “suspicion”, these are the differences:
1. By-passed the UPS;
2. On instruction, avoided loading the Intel SATA/RAID drivers;
3. Used drivers from the original DVD for the NVIDIA graphics card, but allowed it to go on-line to check for updates (previously I had downloaded a driver from nvidia.com);
4. Removed the Powercore PCI card;
5. Left default drive letters in place - Normally I change the drive letter of my CD and DVD/BR drives so that my data drive is always D:\
Although MOTUBUS64 is an obvious scapegoat, I have wondered about the power requirements of the MIDI interfaces. I had tried powered hubs (without much optimism) and had also wondered about retro fitting a real power supply to them.
It may be obvious now, but my UPS is probably underrated for the 750 watt onboard computer power supply and maybe with all the RAID things happening, along with powered USB, Firewire, graphics card, etc., perhaps the PSU couldn’t derive all the power that it needed from the UPS!?!
I will carry on with the rebuild (after a quick backup), but thought that I would send through these notes in case there is anything that seems familiar with your setup. I’ll keep you posted.
After three months of utter frustration, yesterday was the day that I admitted defeat, packaged up my computer, MOTU 896Mk3 and 2 x MOTU MIDI Express 128s to go to see real IT professionals.
Sadly, when I got there the computer chose that moment to curl up its toes and not even boot up and cycled around Windows repair options, with an occasional BSOD. System Restore would not work so the only option was a complete re-install… Bugger.
Just in case there are similarities – my specs – Gigabyte GA-Z97X-UD3H, i7, 32GB RAM, 2 x 250GB SSD (RAID1), 2 x 3TB HDD (RAID1), GTX760 Graphics, PCIe TI Firewire card, PCI Powercore card.
I am currently 20% reloaded and all the MOTU units have been running without fault and without BSOD for 12 hours.
Apart from the missing software and drivers and in order of “suspicion”, these are the differences:
1. By-passed the UPS;
2. On instruction, avoided loading the Intel SATA/RAID drivers;
3. Used drivers from the original DVD for the NVIDIA graphics card, but allowed it to go on-line to check for updates (previously I had downloaded a driver from nvidia.com);
4. Removed the Powercore PCI card;
5. Left default drive letters in place - Normally I change the drive letter of my CD and DVD/BR drives so that my data drive is always D:\
Although MOTUBUS64 is an obvious scapegoat, I have wondered about the power requirements of the MIDI interfaces. I had tried powered hubs (without much optimism) and had also wondered about retro fitting a real power supply to them.
It may be obvious now, but my UPS is probably underrated for the 750 watt onboard computer power supply and maybe with all the RAID things happening, along with powered USB, Firewire, graphics card, etc., perhaps the PSU couldn’t derive all the power that it needed from the UPS!?!
I will carry on with the rebuild (after a quick backup), but thought that I would send through these notes in case there is anything that seems familiar with your setup. I’ll keep you posted.
Re: Fatal BSOD's with USB and MOTU MIDI Express XT
Hmm, you might be on to something with the power requirements, although in my own case I have a Fractal Design 1000W PSU which should be more than enough to power all of the different PCIe and USB devices. One thing I did notice before is that the MOTU devices don't like it when you have any power saving options enabled... so I turned off anything that powered down after x amount of time and this helped a bit.
Oddly enough I recently purchased x4 15-socket multiplugs for the whole studio to try and normalize power consumption and in the process re-cabled many of the devices. Still haven't gotten a power conditioner so there's some DC hum when lots of devices are switched on but I discovered (after replying last week) that MOTU had a new firmware update for the MIDI Express XT (http://www.motu.com/techsupport/technot ... oduct-MIDI ExpressXT) and from the notes it seems to solve "MIDI transfer instability". Wasn't holding much hope but I've switched back to USB2 and so far I haven't had any BSOD's. I'll keep an eye on it though as it can creep up randomly. I'm still going through a USB power hub to make sure there's enough drawfrom the mains, but whether it's a combination of changing my multiplugs and doing a firmware update it's at least holding for now!
Oddly enough I recently purchased x4 15-socket multiplugs for the whole studio to try and normalize power consumption and in the process re-cabled many of the devices. Still haven't gotten a power conditioner so there's some DC hum when lots of devices are switched on but I discovered (after replying last week) that MOTU had a new firmware update for the MIDI Express XT (http://www.motu.com/techsupport/technot ... oduct-MIDI ExpressXT) and from the notes it seems to solve "MIDI transfer instability". Wasn't holding much hope but I've switched back to USB2 and so far I haven't had any BSOD's. I'll keep an eye on it though as it can creep up randomly. I'm still going through a USB power hub to make sure there's enough drawfrom the mains, but whether it's a combination of changing my multiplugs and doing a firmware update it's at least holding for now!
-
hoosiergogh
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2007 8:03 pm
- Primary DAW OS: Unspecified
Re: Fatal BSOD's with USB and MOTU MIDI Express XT
Fast forward to May 11th, 2020 and after recently purchasing the MIDI Express XT, I am experiencing the same system crash that you describe. This is on an i7 Dell Latitude with a fully updated Windows 10 OS and the most recent Motu MIDI driver. So far the system has crashed about an hour into my session, on every session since installing.
I sometimes wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that I use a Traveler 1 and Traveler 3, even though they are firewire. When I analyze the blue screen dump, it always points to motuusb64. As mentioned in another post, when working it does a good job, but it is not trustworthy enough to use.
Love to know if anyone has solved this issue in the past 5-6 years.
I sometimes wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that I use a Traveler 1 and Traveler 3, even though they are firewire. When I analyze the blue screen dump, it always points to motuusb64. As mentioned in another post, when working it does a good job, but it is not trustworthy enough to use.
Love to know if anyone has solved this issue in the past 5-6 years.