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about 4pre and CueMix

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Discussion related to installation, configuration and use of MOTU hardware such as MIDI interfaces, audio interfaces, etc. with Windows

about 4pre and CueMix

Postby sakinac » Mon Dec 09, 2013 1:36 pm

Hi everybody, I am new to MOTU and I have a problem.

Before I get on with my issue I want to give you my system’s specs.

It’s a custom PC running Windows 8.1 Pro 64 Bit
Motherboard: ASUS P9X79 Le (Latest BIOS 4502)
Processor: Intel i7-4820K @ 3.70GHz
Memory: 16 GB (4 X 4GB) G.Skill
Graphics: GeForce GT620

All hardware using the latest drivers and the system is running smooth and stable.
My DAW/Mastering software is Adobe Audition CC using the MOTU 4pre as my audio interface.

The issue:
When I monitor audio from Audition, using the CueMix FX virtual mixer provided by MOTU I cannot mute the DAW output/Master fader. Even though Mute is selected, audio is still played. Also the Master fader has no effect to the volume of the Audition output. For example if the Master fader is all the way up( 0 ) or all the way down (-60) there is no difference in volume. To sum up the Master fader and mute switch in CueMix are not working.
The only channels showing in CueMix are the 3 inputs (Mic/Line 1-2, Mic/Guitar 1-2 and S/PDIF 1-2)and the Master fader depending on the Mix Setting. I do not have a fader for the DAW/Wave output. Is this normal or is there something wrong with my installation?

Here is my signal chain (screenshots attached)

Audition Audio Preferences:
MOTU Audio ASIO
Stereo Inputs:
L = Mic/Line 1
R = Mic/Line 2
Outputs:
L = Main Out 1-2 1
R = Main Out 1-2 2
No other Audition outputs are mapped.

MOTU 4pre setup:

The MOTU 4pre is connected via USB (cable provided) to a USB2 port in the motherboard. Connected to a USB3 port makes no difference.
No other USB ports are used while the interface is on. Interface has the latest drivers/software from the MOTU website, but I have also tried a clean installation of the divers from the CD provided with the interface.

Outputs:
MAIN 1-2: connected to monitoring system (balanced)
ANALOG 1-2: disconnected

Inputs:
Mic/Line 1-2: connected to an external source (balanced)
Mic/Guitar 1-2: connected to an external source (balanced)

I have tested the MOTU 4pre interface on an older PC running Windows 7 Pro 64bit using and older version of Audition 3.1 facing the same issues.
I have also tested it with the free version of Audacity, facing the same issues. I cannot use the CueMix to mute or change the volume of the DAW output.

On the hardware side, I am able to use the knob to change the main volume of the output by 0.5 dB increments but it is impractical.

Am I doing something wrong? All interfaces I ve used so far have a fader and are able to mute change the DAW output. Is there a problem with the interface? Is there a problem with the driver/software?

Thanks in advance!
sakinac
 
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Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2013 12:57 pm
Primary DAW OS: Windows

Re: about 4pre and CueMix

Postby 4stripes » Mon Dec 09, 2013 2:30 pm

I believe this is how the MOTU interfaces are designed. You'd need to do that in your DAW master fader. Otherwise you use the frontpanel knobs to control the monitor level. You might find that the mute you are pressing will mute the internal CueMix buses, just not the DAW bus.

This might have something to do with it:
Page 38: Controlling the volume of the mix
Use the Mix volume knob (Figure 6-1) to control
the overall output volume of the mix. Mix level is
independent of the output level for the main outs
(or other physical output jack to which the mix is
assigned).
4stripes
 
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Re: about 4pre and CueMix

Postby sakinac » Mon Dec 09, 2013 2:45 pm

Thank you very much for your reply I really appreciate it.
You wrote exactly what I was afraid of. This is the first time I use MOTU products and I just cant believe they would have omitted something so important from their product.
Is this how all MOTU products work? or it just happened with the 4pre?

Thanks again!
sakinac
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2013 12:57 pm
Primary DAW OS: Windows

Re: about 4pre and CueMix

Postby 4stripes » Tue Dec 10, 2013 7:55 am

Out of curiosity, in what way in your workflow are you finding this to be a problem? I don't think any other interface would be any different. You still have monitor level control, which is what the main outs are normally connected to.
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Re: about 4pre and CueMix

Postby sakinac » Tue Dec 10, 2013 8:27 am

Thanks again for your reply.
First of all I want to be clear that apart from this issue I am very happy with the product and especially the preamps.
About my workflow: Part of my job is to calibrate and test audio equipment and media. I use the 4pre inputs to connect to the audio source and compare it with test files in my DAW.
So lets say "A" is the output of my DAW and "B" is the input of the source. I need to be able to Solo "A" and mute "B" with one click. and then mute "A" and solo "B" also with one click to compare DAW and source in real time.
The only work around I have found so far is to record the source in to my DAW and compare them within the DAW, but it is counterproductive it takes forever and I cant get work done this way.
Prior to buying the 4pre I read a little bit about the mix presets of the CueMix and I loved the idea of changing settings with one click. That s why I bought it (actually 2 of them). Unfortunately I didn't read the whole manual.
Thanks again!
sakinac
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2013 12:57 pm
Primary DAW OS: Windows

Re: about 4pre and CueMix

Postby 4stripes » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:31 pm

So do I have this right: You are playing out test files in the DAW while simultaneously monitoring an incoming signal. You want to A/B the test vs the signal, and or perhaps A+B.

It seems like you could just do this right from your DAW.

For example in Pro Tools you would solo the channel you want to listen to. The other channel would mute at that time. Thus one-click. Solo in any DAW can be configured this way.

Image
4stripes
 
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Re: about 4pre and CueMix

Postby sakinac » Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:26 pm

Hi there and thanks again for all your support and patience.
Yes, that is one way to solo A while B mutes automatically when both files are streaming from the disk. But when I monitor an input it gets a little complicated. I need an "one click solution".
One click to solo A/mute B and the next click to mute A/solo B and it s better if it happens in the CueMix for a few reasons.
That was the reason I was holding on a cheap DELTA M-Audio card for so long. The virtual mixer on those is really comprehensive but the product itself is not good enough. My old EMU 1820M had also really good virtual mixer. I really don't want to give 4pre up, I love the sound of it but I am running out of time and patience.
Thank you so much for all your support!
sakinac
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2013 12:57 pm
Primary DAW OS: Windows

Re: about 4pre and CueMix

Postby INSUB » Fri Dec 13, 2013 1:50 pm

You can probably set up the DAW on one mix bus, and the Incoming signal on another mix bus. Then just change which mix bus your headphones are following. It's not one click, but the sound will switch completely from one to the other.

I don't think I have ever heard of exactly the feature you are wanting in any interface.

You could get a DJ mixer and route the source to one input and the DAW output to the other input and just use the cross-fader to switch between the two. Or maybe you can find a DJ program that will let you crossfade a live signal with a recorded signal.
MOTU 828mkII, MOTU 8PRE, Cubase Elements 7, Win7 64bit, Yamaha Motif ES8, Virus TI, Casio Privia PX-350M.
User avatar
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Re: about 4pre and CueMix

Postby sakinac » Fri Dec 13, 2013 2:50 pm

Thanks for your reply!
You guys here are so helpful.
That DJ mixer thing you said was really good idea I ll keep it in mind in the future. But generally the CueMix would have been able to do that with one click, only if it had a bus for the DAW output. But unfortunately it doesn't have one. And this is what I find unusual. Even the crappy Windows mixer has one.
Imagine if CueMix had a DAW OUT bus and you could create a Mix Setup (1) where the INPUT was on SOLO and the DAW was on MUTE and the Mix Setup (2) was Solo on DAW and Mute on Input. That would allow me to change the mixer setup with one click.
Anyways, I did like the 4pre, and I will recommend it to everyone I know. It is a fine interface but not exactly what I wanted. I had to sent it back.
You guys here are amazing and thanks for all your help!
sakinac
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2013 12:57 pm
Primary DAW OS: Windows

Re: about 4pre and CueMix

Postby FourLoudBarks » Sat Dec 14, 2013 3:51 pm

I use the 24io, Cubase, and cue mix, so I only assume you can do this also.

set up an input buss that will receive the output of your pre-recorded tracks from the daw. assign your pre-recorded daw tracks to a dedicated output buss (not the mains) and patch these outputs directly into the input buss you set up. Go to cuemix and create a separate cuemix (not mains). make sure you're using "direct monitoring" in your daw and leave all monitoring buttons off in there. You then should be able to simply mute and un mute the input busses that you want to hear all with cuemix. two clicks to mute one bus and un mute the other, you might be able to assign one of these input busses as the talkback input in which case it would be muted until you press talk, and if you set talkback up so that all inputs drop to "off"(zero) when talk is clicked then you'd be there in one.

I found that the MOTU manual needed to be read, thought about, and re-read while experimenting before I ever got close to getting monitoring to work like I wanted.

I hope this helps.
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Re: about 4pre and CueMix

Postby 4stripes » Mon Dec 16, 2013 8:40 am

sakinac wrote:Yes, that is one way to solo A while B mutes automatically when both files are streaming from the disk. But when I monitor an input it gets a little complicated. I need an "one click solution".
Pro Tools solo/mute does not behave any differently whether playing a file or monitoring an input. The resulting output/functionality is the same, so I don't see what the extra problem there is without a more thorough explanation of your task.

You may find that the 4pre is not up to the task you want to do because it is a basic interface. You might find the UltraLite to be a better interface because in the UltraLite you have separate control of a mix out vs a monitor out. You can define any output to be the monitor out separate from a regular mix/main out. The 4pre does not seem to have this--the outputs are only monitor out, there is no separate monitor vs main.
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Re: about 4pre and CueMix

Postby sebastiansolo83 » Fri Feb 17, 2017 6:10 am

Good day, I am writing today because I can't figure out why my Cuemix won't allow me to set parameters and save them.
Professionally built system for Pro Tools:
Intel i7 DecaCore Extreme
64Gb DDR4 3300mhz
EVGA Nvidia 760 Ti
SAMSUNG 960 EVO M.2 1TB NVMe PCI-Express 3.0 x4 Internal Solid State Drive
Windows 7 Ultimate x64

I built this machine to kill latency. So far, my Motu 4pre works great for playback, but when I go record artists, the input comes in choppy, you can only hear out of one side of the headphones, and you can't listen to it live in the outputs main. Now this is not the first time I have utilized Motu 4pre, but I had it connected to my old system and it was quite easy to use. Now my CUEMIX will not allow me to touch/change/or adjust anything. Every time I go to make an adjustment the cuemix puts it back to where it was. I'm one anger outburst from throwing this thing out the window and going with a scarlette from focusrite for it's hurting my business. I have reset the 4pre back to factory settings, I have uninstalled and reinstalled all software repeatedly, and I am still in the same predicament. If you guys have seen, heard, or have figured this issue out please fill me in. I would truly be grateful from the bottom of my soul.
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