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Roland D-50, MTP AV USB, Unisyn 2.1.1

Discussion of issues related to MOTU's Sysex Editor/Librarian program.

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Roland D-50, MTP AV USB, Unisyn 2.1.1

Postby Shredder » Thu May 17, 2007 6:46 pm

I recently purchased Unisyn 2.1.1, and have followed the directions in the profile notes as well as the manual, but can't for the life of me get patches from my Roland D-50 or my Roland JD-800 to dump into my mac. Can anyone give a detailed description of a process that works. I've added both devices, and end up with a patch bank where every patch is titled "Init Patch".I've set-up the D-50 in Bulk dump mode and hit enter. I've gone to the "Get Group/All Patches and Banks" menu, but nothing happens. MIDI is hooked up properly to both In and out of D-50 with MTP AV. What should the device ID be for the roland D-50 Is this the same as the manufacturer's ID (41)? MIDI has been set-up to send and receive on Chnl 14 for the D-50 in my Audio/MIDI set-up on the mac's OSX.Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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Postby npatton » Fri May 18, 2007 9:09 am

It's been a while since I tried transfering with my D-50, but after a few tries I think I can tell you what works for me, at least. (No experience with JD-800.)

BTW, I'm using a MIDI Express XT, but I don't think that should change anything...

Device ID: 1

My play channel/transer channel is set to 1 in D-50 and Audio/MIDI Setup. These should all match, no matter what channel, but at least that's where I'm set up.

There's a really important step underlined in the D-50 Profile Help page. It's the step I usually missed, so I'm mentioning it here.

In Unisyn Devices window, I hi-light the Patch Bank row under the D-50 heading. Then under the MIDI Menu, I click "Get Selected Items" (or type Command G).

Then, I go to D-50 and hit the Transfer Data button. WHILE HOLDING THE TRANSFER DATA BUTTON, select B.DUMP. Hit ENTER when asked if you're sure.

This should set things going. So far, I'm pretty sure things MUST be done in this order to get any results. Forgetting to hold the two buttons together messed me up for days one time trying to figure this out.

Let us know how it goes. Good luck! :D

n
MacBook Pro (2.2 gHz dual core, 2 gigs RAM); OSX10.5.8; DP 5.13; Unisyn 2.1.1; Stylus RMX; MOTU MIDI Express XT; MOTU 828mkii; Roland XV-5050, D-50; Alesis QS7; Yamaha S90ES, TX-216

----------------------------------
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Still not quite working

Postby Shredder » Sat May 19, 2007 9:43 am

Thanks to NPATTON for getting me further along, but I can't quite close the deal. Your tip about holding down the "data Transfer" button while pressing "bulk dump" did make the D-50 initiate a Bulk dump. But Unison just says in the status window: "Getting Patch Bank from Roland D-50". It remains hung up in that state long after the D-50 keyboard window says Data Transfer Complete. If I hit the return key on my Mac keyboard it just executes cancel.
In your prior post you stated Device ID:1 Or should this be set to the manufacturer's ID of 41?
Does this refer to the System Exclusive ID in the Audio/MIDI setup for my D-50?
I have the MIDI channel set to chnl 14 in the audio /MIDI set-up window for the D-5o for both send and receive, and the D-50 itself is set on chnl 14.
It's MIDI in and out are both hooked up to port 3 of my MIDI Timepiece AV USB, and I installed the latest OSX driver for the MIDI Timepiece: v1.1.3.6

Thanks for your help.
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Postby npatton » Sat May 19, 2007 10:21 am

Hmmmm. Sorry 'bout that.

In my Audio/MIDI setup, I have nothing set in my System Exclusive ID (under the Properties tab). Maybe I should, but since I haven't needed it, I'm not going to add one. Seems to be a seperate item from Device ID. Likewise, Device ID 1 has always worked for me. In fact, all my external synths are set to ID: 1 and Unisyn works great with them.

Under the Ports tab, do your in/out settings match your physical port connections on your MTP?

In your Devices window, when you double click on the D-50 field, do you have settings in the pop-up window that match your Audio/MIDI settings (Device ID and Default Play Channel)? Also, be sure your "Switcher Program" and "Switch to Send" options are set to "none".

Perhaps a more basic question, but important to ask: Have you tested your MIDI setup in Audio/MIDI Setup? Click the Test Setup icon and then click the D-50 icon (with your volume low, as it generates a cluster of MIDI data that's pretty obnoxious). Then play some D-50 keys, and listen for a beep from your system output indicating MIDI data going through in that direction. If nothing happens in either direction, then your basic MIDI connections and settings are off target. (Sorry if this one's too basic, but had to check.)

Again, be sure your send and receive channels are all set to Channel 14 in: D-50, in Unisyn (after double clicking D-50 field) and in Audio/MIDI Setup (after double-clicking the D-50 icon). As long as all three locations match, I don't think it should matter what channel you use. (Personally, I set each synth to channel 1 since I have so many ports on my XT, it's just easier for me to remember...)

I hope this gets you further. Anyone else see something I'm missing? Chime in!

Good luck :D
n
MacBook Pro (2.2 gHz dual core, 2 gigs RAM); OSX10.5.8; DP 5.13; Unisyn 2.1.1; Stylus RMX; MOTU MIDI Express XT; MOTU 828mkii; Roland XV-5050, D-50; Alesis QS7; Yamaha S90ES, TX-216

----------------------------------
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No results yet.

Postby Shredder » Sat May 19, 2007 3:40 pm

Thanks again for your help. I have verified MIDI connectivity and data flow in both directions. In Audio MIDI Set-up under the Ports tab I have "Port 1" under ports, and under "Connectors for Port 1"
MIDI In: 1
MIDI Out:1
Is that correct?
Default play channel in the Unisyn D-50 window is 14. Audio MIDI set-up for D-50 has MIDI chnl q4 for Transmit and receive. In the Audio MIDI set-up window for D-50 it defaults to System Exclusive ID: 1 Even when I delete it and apply changes it comes back as 1.
I'm still puzzled as to what I'm missing.
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Postby npatton » Sun May 20, 2007 1:52 pm

Yeah, I'm kinda stumped. Sounds like the only difference between your settings and mine are your choice of MIDI channel (which shouldn't matter) and the System Exclusive ID, which is blank in my setup.

Tech Support would be my next avenue unless someone else here spots something I've missed.

Sorry I haven't hit on what's missing. The steps and settings I've outlined have worked for my system, but then I'm kinda weird anyway... :D

Let us know if something lights up and you can get everythign working. You're not the only one fighting this, apparently.

Yours,
n
MacBook Pro (2.2 gHz dual core, 2 gigs RAM); OSX10.5.8; DP 5.13; Unisyn 2.1.1; Stylus RMX; MOTU MIDI Express XT; MOTU 828mkii; Roland XV-5050, D-50; Alesis QS7; Yamaha S90ES, TX-216

----------------------------------
FWIW, my own music can be heard at...
http://www.neilpatton.net ,
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/neilpatton
Business Site: http://www.pattonmusic.com
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I Contacted MOTU Tech on this issue and stated the problem

Postby Shredder » Mon May 21, 2007 10:28 am

On 5/21/07 at 12:20 CST I emailed MOTU Tech support with the following regarding the problem dumping patches from a Roland D-50 into Unisyn 2.1.1

I have verified 2-way communication between my D-50 snf my MIDI Timepiece AV USB. I've installed the very latest MTP driver. I launce Unisyn. I go to the devices heading at the top and select Roland D-50/Patch Bank. In my Audio/MIDI set-up under D-50 properties it's set to transmit and recieve on Channel 14, aqnd the System Exclusive ID is left blank. (I've also tried the operation with the System Exclusive ID set to 41, but that didn't work either) Under the ports window I have 1 port, and under "Connectors for Port 1, MIDI in=1 and MIDI Out=1 In Unisyn I bring the window "Bank Edit-Roland D-50 Patch Bank" to the front by clicking on it. All of the patches in this window say "Init Patch". My Roland D-50 is set to MIDI Channel 14, Control= B.Ch, Sep Ch=01, Omni= Off, Local= On, Exclu= On. In Unisyn I go to the MIDI heading and click on "Get Selected Items". The window "Get Bank" appears. In this window it says the status: Getting Patch Bank from Roland D-50. Below that it says "Message- Please initiate bank dump from Roland D-50 (Patch Bank). I walk over to the D-50, and WHILE HOLDING DOWN the Data Transfer Button simultaneously press B. Dump. The display on the D-50 says "Are You Sure?" I press "enter". Then a series of dots appears moving from left to right across the D-50 display to show that it is sending information. The little clock appears on the computer monitor showing that it is figuring things out, but it never ever moves beyond this state. After waiting long beyond the time it has taken the D-50 to complete sending the data, the only option left is to hit return on the computer keyboard, which cancels the operation. A "MIDI Received window appears filled with Hex data. If I select "Edit?Hex View" I can also see the hexadecimal data. But the window titled "Bank Edit-Roland D-50 Patch Bank" remains filled with patches titled "Init Patch". I hope you can show me where I'm going wrong. Thanks. I'm running a dual 867 MHz G4 with DP5.1, with a MOTU MTP AV USB, a MOTU 2408 mk3, a MOTU 1224, and an original MOTU 2408. I also have (2) TC Electronics powercore PCI cards installed. I'm running OSX 10.4.3
That's what I wrote!
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Postby npatton » Mon May 21, 2007 10:50 am

Very thorough! I hope they get back to you in a timely fashion and can help. Looks like you have thought through the important stuff on your end...

Your procedure differed slightly from mine in how you "requested" a dump from the D-50 (You selected your device from the menu, I selected it from the Devices Window). However, I just followed your steps and things still worked for me. Just thought I'd check and see if that was a possible (albeit silly) cause of problems. No joy. (I just bet the solution's going to be one of those "d'oh" moments for both of us!)

All the Best,
n
MacBook Pro (2.2 gHz dual core, 2 gigs RAM); OSX10.5.8; DP 5.13; Unisyn 2.1.1; Stylus RMX; MOTU MIDI Express XT; MOTU 828mkii; Roland XV-5050, D-50; Alesis QS7; Yamaha S90ES, TX-216

----------------------------------
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http://www.neilpatton.net ,
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/neilpatton
Business Site: http://www.pattonmusic.com
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D50 and Unisyn

Postby Richard Smith » Mon Jul 02, 2007 3:12 pm

Hey guys, especially you there npatton! You seem to know a great deal about D50/Unisyn communications so I have a question for you (or anyone else out there that may have the answer). Actually, this isn't as much of a Unisyn problem as it is a D50 problem but here goes: Whenever I test my configuration in Audio MIDI set up the D50 acts as though there is no such thing as note off commands. In other words, that cluster of notes you described (perfectly by the way!) never stops sounding until I hit a program change command. I can live with that but when I start sequencing in DP5 it seems to catch some note off mesgs and not others. The result is after a few bars you have that cluster back and the only way to "relieve" it is to hit a prog change. Any ideas? Thanks in advance!
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Postby npatton » Mon Jul 02, 2007 4:29 pm

Hmmm. That's weird. I've heard of DP not handling note-offs correctly at times, but A/M Setup?

I just tried A/M Setup myself and it worked fine with my D-50, so I can't duplicate the problem here. I'm totally grasping at straws, but could it be another bad cable? (You mentioned in the other thread that you had some cable issues with Unisyn.) Sounds like it might possibly be a hardware issue, since some note-off commands are being caught while others are missed.

Is there any such thing as a MIDI data log-jam? Too much data going in for everything to be caught by the D-50 processor? Again, perhaps a bad cable or connection is exacerbating this. I dunno...

Also, do you have any other MIDI intensive programs running at the same time (i.e. Finale, Garage Band, etc.)? My MIDI goes stupid if I ever have Finale running at the same time as DP.

Maybe someone else here has an idea? Sorry I'm not more technically adept...

:roll: n
MacBook Pro (2.2 gHz dual core, 2 gigs RAM); OSX10.5.8; DP 5.13; Unisyn 2.1.1; Stylus RMX; MOTU MIDI Express XT; MOTU 828mkii; Roland XV-5050, D-50; Alesis QS7; Yamaha S90ES, TX-216

----------------------------------
FWIW, my own music can be heard at...
http://www.neilpatton.net ,
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/neilpatton
Business Site: http://www.pattonmusic.com
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Unisyn D50 issues

Postby Richard Smith » Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:43 am

I figured it out thanks to various pieces of information I gathered here at UnicorNation! Thanks to everyone who is not afraid to share information. I read in one of the forums last night that Unisyn/DP or MOTU in general do not support USB hubs. Furthermore, there was a conversation between 2 individuals in this forum disputing this issue, one member stated he read in one of the MOTU manuals to use a USB hub if more USB access was needed. The other member adamantly stated that the manual he read clearly says USB hubs are not supported. In my case, I recently moved my Fastlane interface from it's direct connection to a USB hub for convenience reasons and that is approximately when I started having all kinds of weird problems (stuck notes on the D50 were just part of the problem!). Once I reconfigured my setup all the struck notes ceased! After this experience I'm a believer that MOTU does not support the use of USB hubs. Thanks again for your help!
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Postby npatton » Tue Jul 03, 2007 6:04 pm

Wow! Glad you got this worked out, and glad to know about this issue. I use a powered hub with no problems, so I've never bothered to connect directly. Lucky me! :lol:

If anything starts going south, that'll be the first thing I try.

Thanks for sharing your solution. Big help!

Yours,
n
MacBook Pro (2.2 gHz dual core, 2 gigs RAM); OSX10.5.8; DP 5.13; Unisyn 2.1.1; Stylus RMX; MOTU MIDI Express XT; MOTU 828mkii; Roland XV-5050, D-50; Alesis QS7; Yamaha S90ES, TX-216

----------------------------------
FWIW, my own music can be heard at...
http://www.neilpatton.net ,
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/neilpatton
Business Site: http://www.pattonmusic.com
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D-550 and memory cards

Postby Michael Sexton » Mon Sep 03, 2007 9:36 pm

How does one retrieve the patches from memory cards?
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Postby npatton » Tue Sep 04, 2007 8:24 am

Good question. My D-50 isn't hooked up right now and might not be a for a few days. I'll reply again if I get some time to experiment...

n
MacBook Pro (2.2 gHz dual core, 2 gigs RAM); OSX10.5.8; DP 5.13; Unisyn 2.1.1; Stylus RMX; MOTU MIDI Express XT; MOTU 828mkii; Roland XV-5050, D-50; Alesis QS7; Yamaha S90ES, TX-216

----------------------------------
FWIW, my own music can be heard at...
http://www.neilpatton.net ,
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/neilpatton
Business Site: http://www.pattonmusic.com
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Re: D-550 and memory cards

Postby chucks » Tue Sep 04, 2007 10:20 am

Michael Sexton wrote:How does one retrieve the patches from memory cards?


Transfer the card to D50 internal memory, get the patches to Unisyn and then reload the original patches to the D50 from the card you saved them on before you started (or the 00 card that came with the D50). Unfortunate, but the only way I figured out to do it.
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