Problem with bounce to disk in Catalina

[Killahurts]

I got a new Mac Pro recently, it came with Catalina installed. The first Job on DP I had to do was to post a 1 hour radio show. I've done 30 of these the exact same way. When I went to bounce the mix, I got the spinning rainbow for a while, and then it would get a few minutes in and hang up. I tried it several times and had to force quit DP each time. I'm bouncing to the project format, BWAVs.

I finally took the actual SSD disk to the old computer and tried it there, it worked as it always has and I got the job done.

The two things that are different from the old machine vs. the new one, is Catalina on the new one vs. High Sierra on the old one, and a different interface- My RME MADI card didn't work in the new computer so I replaced it with a MOTU M64 MADI interface. Because of that, I also tried on the new machine to bounce from buss outputs, rather than the MADI outputs- same story.

Any experiences with this? I suspect it might be a Catalina issue, but most of you DP power-users are probably smart enough not to have that installed, unless you have a new machine like me.

[mikehalloran]

There are bounce options in DP 10 that I don't remember from 9.x but I had no trouble with BTD in Catalina on my 2012 MBP this morning. I had to select my 828 outputs but if I had it off, I could have selected headphones. I did a real time bounce by unchecking offline and selecting output.

First project I created and finished on my test machine. Fired up my old 828mkII since my Mackie doesn't have MIDI and my new M4 is backordered. Went pretty smoothly.

Normally, I would have just done this acoustically but the guts of our big piano are in a shop in Alameda and my wife's Knabe sucks.

[Killahurts]

I would have just done this acoustically but the guts of our big piano are in a shop in Alameda and my wife's Knabe sucks.

Thanks Mike! Wow most of the Knabes I've played sounded really nice.. my Mom used to have a small Knabe grand that was out-of-this-world sweet and musical..

Anyway, I thought about trying it in real time, but that doesn't really get to the problem, does it? If it works, it just proves that offline bounce is broken (on my machine anyway).

BTW, this is straight bouncing of audio files, no MIDI, from one stereo pair of working outputs. There are no plugins even. I'll try some experiments tonight with shorter bounces..

[mikehalloran]

I can test offline bounce later this evening.

[mikehalloran]

I normally bounce offline, too. I bounced with offline unchecked this morning because I had never done it before.

Anyway, I did this again offline, bwav stereo interleaved, outputs checked, tracks unchecked. Worked perfectly.

Is your destination path correct? Trying to write to a disk or folder that doesn't exist or to which you don't have permissions will result in an error msg eventually. The default is (system)/Documents/(project folder)/Bounces — which it will create the first time you BTD.

[mikehalloran]

Played with BTD on my Catalina machine last night. Tried every way I could think of including with and without MIDI tracks and VIs. All was good.

Open up Console.app just before you run BTD. It should reveal what processes are causing it to hang. Apple Support can help you find the culprit — they won't help you deal with it if not Apple but knowing what it is generally helps you isolate the problem.

In the past, BTD problems always meant that I had a bad stick of RAM.

[Killahurts]

Thanks for checking it out Mike!

Sorry, I haven't been able to try anything out with this yet. I'm still going through the living hell of trying to transition out of a 2010 Mac Pro to a new Mac Pro with Catalina. I have many hundreds of plugins and virtual instruments, and I have to (attempt to) install them all one at a time, the only way allowed now. The security on this machine is so ridiculously over-the-top, what should have taken days, has taken weeks. I have had to spend a lot of unexpected money, both in hardware and software, because of incompatibilities. Apple needs to offer an opened version of the OS for these so-called "Pro" machines, IMO.

I don't think it's RAM problems, because FCPX would probably not work/bounce as well as it does if that were the case. I did look at the System Report, and the memory all checked out there.

One thing I think I'll try is trashing the DP prefs. I remember now that in the beginning, I had copied the prefs from the other machine, which is on High Sierra.. could make a difference.

Console app is a good idea also, thanks for reminding me!

[mikehalloran]

Yea, new MP, RAM isn’t going to be your issue.

If this is repeatable, get an Apple tech on the phone and viewing your system when it happens. They have apps that let them view a trace in real time. Usually, you’ll get “I don’t know what (xxx.xxx) is but there’s the hang up”. Then you search for hidden files and find out it’s part of an HP driver package from 2005 or some nonsense like that. After deletion, you’re back in business.

Good luck with this!

[Killahurts]

I'm at a loss on this.

I did a tech ticket about this, and my new MOTU M64 in general. The M64 is doing the job perfectly and after some troubleshooting, we've determined the interface is not at fault. I'm glad because I love this interface.

I also noticed that my project drive I was using and bouncing to, was an APFS formatted drive, so I moved the project to another drive that was formatted as Mac OS Extended (Journaled) and tried it there. No difference, so I ruled that out.

I'm at the point where I have to look at Catalina. This new Mac Pro is the only Mac I have (out of eight) that runs this OS. I may test it on another machine tomorrow that runs Mojave, but in light of Gabe's situation, who also has a new high-powered Mac Pro, I'm having to wonder if it's the OS or that new security chip.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=67483

[Killahurts]

After audio problems that kept getting more and more severe with my M64 (USB) interface, and my computer's USB in general, I made another effort to install my RME MADI PCIe card.

By now I have removed most of the security features/limitations/lockdowns from the computer, which has actually made it usable for the first time since I purchased it, for anything besides FCPX. The MADI card installed and works perfectly. It was time to do another (1 hr.) radio show today, so I took the opportunity to test the bounce problem. There were no issues this time, no pauses, and it went very fast on account of the new, faster Mac Pro.

So it was external hardware, or rather the way this new Mac Pro or Catalina handles the hardware connected to the USB buss, that seems to have been the issue.

[mhschmieder]

Hmm, I don't have their MADI device but have the original UFX that supports FW and USB and switched to USB a couple of years ago when my 2010 MacPro died and I had to buy a 2017 iMac, figuring my connection choices on this computer aren't quite as conducive to FW vs. USB.

I've been having weird losses of audio several times a day that require time-consuming reboots, and just upgraded to Catalina yesterday, so will keep an eye on BTD and other features and see whether it might be better to go back to FW, but I think they dropped FW800 with the UFX and went back to FW400, so USB might be slightly faster, but not necessarily for combined read/write cycles.

MADI is great, but I never saw the need for so many channels in my work (even though I'd prefer not having to use ADAT for my expansion module). Maybe it's better to have a safer protocol even if the full channel count is not anticipated as needed though.

[Killahurts]

Hmm, I don't have their MADI device but have the original UFX that supports FW and USB and switched to USB a couple of years ago when my 2010 MacPro died and I had to buy a 2017 iMac, figuring my connection choices on this computer aren't quite as conducive to FW vs. USB.

I've been having weird losses of audio several times a day that require time-consuming reboots, and just upgraded to Catalina yesterday, so will keep an eye on BTD and other features and see whether it might be better to go back to FW, but I think they dropped FW800 with the UFX and went back to FW400, so USB might be slightly faster, but not necessarily for combined read/write cycles.

MADI is great, but I never saw the need for so many channels in my work (even though I'd prefer not having to use ADAT for my expansion module). Maybe it's better to have a safer protocol even if the full channel count is not anticipated as needed though.

My system is working perfectly now. In retrospect, I believe I was simply asking too much of my USB buss on this new machine. The computer resides in a remote machine room, so much of the USB is extended over CAT 6 cable into the control and live rooms. All my MIDI and MIDI interfaces, including my Realtime system, with all it's pedals and controllers, are all USB based. Of course I had the M64 physically with the computer, and with a straight connection.. but still, the computer is natively USB 3.0, and it has to negotiate all those extended 2.0 hubs, with all the "sub-hubs" I have to use. The worst issues seemed to be with syncing/clocks. I simply have to have an audio interface that is integrated solid as a rock in my machine, and that means internal (PCIe).

I have used MADI for years and I love it. I do need the channel count because I'm coming in and out of a console, both analog and digital. Originally I had a Sony digital console with a MADI board installed. When the Sony died I went ITB for a very short time, then got my current front end setup- 24 ch analog I/O, 24 ch digital I/O, connected to the computer with a single fiber optic duplex cable.

[mikehalloran]

Damn!

I am not worthy!

[Killahurts]

Damn!

I am not worthy!

Maybe.. but I'll bet you're not broke either!

Seriously Mike, thanks for all your help over the years! You're an amazing storehouse of knowledge and you share it freely here.. you are much appreciated!

[leigh]

Damn!

I am not worthy!

Seriously Mike, thanks for all your help over the years! You're an amazing storehouse of knowledge and you share it freely here.. you are much appreciated!

What he said!

**Leigh