Biggest issue for not purchasing DP

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stubbsonic
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Re: Biggest issue for not purchasing DP

Post by stubbsonic »

HCMarkus wrote:Get SwitchResX. It allows one to set custom screen resolutions on a per application basis.

Or get a bigger 4k monitor. I find DP is quite usable at full-res on a 40" 4k monitor.
Two very useful suggestions.
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Re: Biggest issue for not purchasing DP

Post by bayswater »

Bigger velocity icons in the MIDI editor, and bigger text fonts in the Track window would be nice, but these are hardly showstoppers.

Changing screen resolution is a real option. The control panel to set screen resolution is not there so we can always set it to the maximum -- it's there so we can set where it best displays the work we're doing. The DP interface is mostly graphics, so setting resolution so the text works, then zooming the screens to get the images to the right size works fine, and is just one of the basics of using a computer that applies to any application.

You can edit the image used for the velocity icon as has been suggested here about every six months since V6. My theme shows velocity as an ugly cyan blob. I use at 27" iMac screen set a max resolution, I very shortsighted, and I can see it fine. Even so, grabbing those icons one at a time for editing is difficult to do, so I hardly ever do it.

Instead, think about whether managing velocity values is best done by dragging individual icons, and whether micromanaging individual values even makes musical sense. The icons, small as they are, give a visible display of the shape of velocity changes. But they don't need to be used for editing, and perhaps MOTU never intended them to be used for this purpose, and that's why they haven't changed them.

DP gives a variety of tools for editing velocity other than dragging those tiny icons.

- There are the various, usually overlooked, shaping tools. Have a look at Shooshie's tips on this. You can do just about anything by learning the tools.
- There is the velocity dialog that can apply various changes to selected notes, including some, like compression, that can't be done with the shaping tools, or by dragging icons.
- When it becomes necessary to change one velocity value to a specific value, there is the event editor that can be left open in a sidebar, or the info panel at the top of each edit window, where the velocity value of any selected note can be dragged up and down, or set to a specific value.

I've also found the inability to easily position a mouse so the little hand icon pops up when close to a velocity icon, and then hang onto it, could be a sign that the mouse or pointer doesn't work well. I recently bought a new mouse and was surprised at how much easier it grabs and holds a specific screen object, compared the mouse that came with my Mac. I have no trouble selecting a range of notes and dragging their velocity icons in the MIDI edit window, although it's still tricky to do with a single note unselected note.

So, bigger icons? Sure, why not. But deciding to abandon DP for an alternative on this one issue makes no sense.
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Re: Biggest issue for not purchasing DP

Post by MIDI Life Crisis »

Ok, I'll jump in... I'm 63 and never needed glasses except optionally for distance. My 63 year old eyes don't have a problem seeing velocity point dots in the MIDI editor or digits in ANY box. And frankly, if I do reference those points and digits it is tangentially at best.

You want to know what the real deal breaker would be?

No chunks (multiple sequences per project).

I look at all the great stuff in a product and balance that against the minor irritations. In that light it would be very difficult to evaluate DP as the o/p and others have.

To put a fine point on it, if it bothers you so much buy or steal something else. We've been around the "fonts too small" block on MN a number of times.

Moving on...
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Re: Biggest issue for not purchasing DP

Post by stubbsonic »

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:Ok, I'll jump in... I'm 63 and never needed glasses except optionally for distance. My 63 year old eyes don't have a problem seeing velocity point dots in the MIDI editor ...

Moving on...
It's not a matter of seeing them. It's a matter of CLICKING ON THEM.
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Re: Biggest issue for not purchasing DP

Post by MIDI Life Crisis »

stubbsonic wrote:
MIDI Life Crisis wrote:Ok, I'll jump in... I'm 63 and never needed glasses except optionally for distance. My 63 year old eyes don't have a problem seeing velocity point dots in the MIDI editor ...

Moving on...
It's not a matter of seeing them. It's a matter of CLICKING ON THEM.
Again, it's not really been a big problem for me. Maybe I edit less that some of you guys. In fact, I'm sure of it!
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Re: Biggest issue for not purchasing DP

Post by rangerx »

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:
stubbsonic wrote:
MIDI Life Crisis wrote:Ok, I'll jump in... I'm 63 and never needed glasses except optionally for distance. My 63 year old eyes don't have a problem seeing velocity point dots in the MIDI editor ...

Moving on...
It's not a matter of seeing them. It's a matter of CLICKING ON THEM.
Again, it's not really been a big problem for me. Maybe I edit less that some of you guys. In fact, I'm sure of it!
think the issue that most dont have the set up to be comfortable with the GUI , and lets face it they do need to address this its everyones wishlist , i also have a work around using the event list since the GUI issue is graphic cant be all that hard to correct wont affect the way DP9 works just a larger GUI and only lets say MIDI edit mixer also i use touch screen ,
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Re: Biggest issue for not purchasing DP

Post by terrybritton »

If I want to edit individual velocities,
  1. I check the box at the bottom-left of the MIDI editor to show only Velocities,
  2. click the tool that looks like a sine wave at the top (the ReShape tool, or hold down letter "R" on the keyboard to toggle to it momentarily),
  3. set the ReShape mode in the icon to the left of that to my desired mode,
  4. zoom way in to see only the parts I want,
    and
  5. "sweep" my mouse through the desired level for each velocity (level value shown in legend at far left).

When done, I return to the "Pointer Tool", or return to that momentarily by holding letter "A" on the keyboard.

I alternate between using the "Flat" and the "Free" ReShape Modes, generally, but there are many cool ReShape Modes available.

No "grabbing tiny boxes" that way. I've never done it that way, in fact - that is what I describe as sheer masochism! :P

Also note the "ReShape Action" modes you have available in the ""Left-Arrow" icon to the right of the "sine-wave-like" ReShape tool..

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stubbsonic
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Re: Biggest issue for not purchasing DP

Post by stubbsonic »

I usually don't use those microscopic Vs either, and even if they were bigger I probably wouldn't.

What I do use is the microscopic Ts for tempo editing. And those are pain to work with.
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Re: Biggest issue for not purchasing DP

Post by MIDI Life Crisis »

terrybritton wrote:If I want to edit individual velocities,
  1. I check the box at the bottom-left of the MIDI editor to show only Velocities,
  2. click the tool that looks like a sine wave at the top (the ReShape tool, or hold down letter "R" on the keyboard to toggle to it momentarily),
  3. set the ReShape mode in the icon to the left of that to my desired mode,
  4. zoom way in to see only the parts I want,
    and
  5. "sweep" my mouse through the desired level for each velocity (level value shown in legend at far left).

When done, I return to the "Pointer Tool", or return to that momentarily by holding letter "A" on the keyboard.

I alternate between using the "Flat" and the "Free" ReShape Modes, generally, but there are many cool ReShape Modes available.

No "grabbing tiny boxes" that way. I've never done it that way, in fact - that is what I describe as sheer masochism! :P

Also note the "ReShape Action" modes you have available in the ""Left-Arrow" icon to the right of the "sine-wave-like" ReShape tool..

Terry
Duh! Yeah, there are better ways to work in DP than clicking on all the little numbers. I guess it boils down to how much control one wants as opposed to how much control one actually needs and/or how much control one thinks they need to make their work viable. I'm all for short cuts that take micromanaging my data out of the equation. How did da Vinci put it?

Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.
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Re: Biggest issue for not purchasing DP

Post by Michael Canavan »

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:
terrybritton wrote:If I want to edit individual velocities,
  1. I check the box at the bottom-left of the MIDI editor to show only Velocities,
  2. click the tool that looks like a sine wave at the top (the ReShape tool, or hold down letter "R" on the keyboard to toggle to it momentarily),
  3. set the ReShape mode in the icon to the left of that to my desired mode,
  4. zoom way in to see only the parts I want,
    and
  5. "sweep" my mouse through the desired level for each velocity (level value shown in legend at far left).

When done, I return to the "Pointer Tool", or return to that momentarily by holding letter "A" on the keyboard.

I alternate between using the "Flat" and the "Free" ReShape Modes, generally, but there are many cool ReShape Modes available.

No "grabbing tiny boxes" that way. I've never done it that way, in fact - that is what I describe as sheer masochism! :P

Also note the "ReShape Action" modes you have available in the ""Left-Arrow" icon to the right of the "sine-wave-like" ReShape tool..

Terry
Duh! Yeah, there are better ways to work in DP than clicking on all the little numbers. I guess it boils down to how much control one wants as opposed to how much control one actually needs and/or how much control one thinks they need to make their work viable. I'm all for short cuts that take micromanaging my data out of the equation. How did da Vinci put it?

Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.
This of course doesn't work at all if you only want one or two non concurrent velocity values adjusted out of 25+ etc. Neither does applying any of the Change Velocity features. I defintily have times where I would like to adjust the velocity of a single note or two.

I simply cannot think of any reasonable reason to think that the size of the little v's on the velocity lines are big enough these days. There are valid reasons to want to just quickly adjust one velocity value within that graphic editing environment. I completely agree it's not a big enough reason to not use DP, that's silly, but it's a reasonable area to hope, or petition for improvement in.

I often wonder why it seems that most people are so binary about criticism of a DAW or plug in etc?
You get people who think any week spot in a DAW is a critical failure that ruptures the whole experience, Chicken Little sky is falling style condemnation etc. or you get people who seemingly think any critique is an attack. Maybe DP is a great DAW, but the simple act of adjusting an on velocity in the graphic editor would be much improved by an even slightly larger handle to click drag on?
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Re: Biggest issue for not purchasing DP

Post by MIDI Life Crisis »

Adjusting a single note is easy. I select the note and go to the info box and type in the value. If that's the box were talking about then either I have amazing vision or others have impaired vision, because I can see and select those boxes quite easily. Grabbing the velocity point in the MIDI editor is easy. Granted it can be tricky in the SE, but I don't edit MIDI data there.

Or are we talking about something else? Also, holding down the r key ( for reshape tool) is by far the fastest way to change velocity (as long as those data points are visible. Seriously, I simply don't have the issues mentioned in this thread as a serious issues for me. I guess I'm just getting younger. LOL
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Re: Biggest issue for not purchasing DP

Post by Michael Canavan »

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:Adjusting a single note is easy. I select the note and go to the info box and type in the value. If that's the box were talking about then either I have amazing vision or others have impaired vision, because I can see and select those boxes quite easily. Grabbing the velocity point in the MIDI editor is easy. Granted it can be tricky in the SE, but I don't edit MIDI data there.

Or are we talking about something else? Also, holding down the r key ( for reshape tool) is by far the fastest way to change velocity (as long as those data points are visible. Seriously, I simply don't have the issues mentioned in this thread as a serious issues for me. I guess I'm just getting younger. LOL
Look, I have for years, since 2.7 used the actual v on the velocity line to adjust the velocity. The reason for this is simple, it's quicker, but I have to admit the only setback is having to be ridiculously precise with the mouse.
If you're wondering why it would be synths more than anything else, with filters opening up via velocity that get finicky around a certain setting. It's much quicker to just jump in there and grab the little v than to mess around in the info box or Event editor etc. since at times it involves a lot of back and forth to find the spot, if you're not just matching it to the adjacent spot.

Everyone uses DP a bit differently, for instance I'm in total agreement with you about Chunk Folders and I'm sure there are people who have no use at all for that feature, and think we should just rename things to quickly sort them like they do etc. Folders in the Chunks menu for me though would go right below "Rendering all tracks as separate audio files", as far a productivity features I would like to see, then it would be a freaking few more pixels for the v in the velocity line!
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Re: Biggest issue for not purchasing DP

Post by terrybritton »

Michael Canavan wrote:
MIDI Life Crisis wrote:Adjusting a single note is easy. I select the note and go to the info box and type in the value. If that's the box were talking about then either I have amazing vision or others have impaired vision, because I can see and select those boxes quite easily. Grabbing the velocity point in the MIDI editor is easy. Granted it can be tricky in the SE, but I don't edit MIDI data there.

Or are we talking about something else? Also, holding down the r key ( for reshape tool) is by far the fastest way to change velocity (as long as those data points are visible. Seriously, I simply don't have the issues mentioned in this thread as a serious issues for me. I guess I'm just getting younger. LOL
Look, I have for years, since 2.7 used the actual v on the velocity line to adjust the velocity. The reason for this is simple, it's quicker, but I have to admit the only setback is having to be ridiculously precise with the mouse.
If you're wondering why it would be synths more than anything else, with filters opening up via velocity that get finicky around a certain setting. It's much quicker to just jump in there and grab the little v than to mess around in the info box or Event editor etc. since at times it involves a lot of back and forth to find the spot, if you're not just matching it to the adjacent spot.

Everyone uses DP a bit differently, for instance I'm in total agreement with you about Chunk Folders and I'm sure there are people who have no use at all for that feature, and think we should just rename things to quickly sort them like they do etc. Folders in the Chunks menu for me though would go right below "Rendering all tracks as separate audio files", as far a productivity features I would like to see, then it would be a freaking few more pixels for the v in the velocity line!
Michael, I swear to you it is far easier to hold down the "R" key and swipe the mouse across the velocity line at the height you want it at than it is to grab that end-point. You can even see the exact number you are swiping at from the line in the gauge at the far left. (I use the "Flat" ReShape mode when working this way.) Give it a try and you will become a convert and never hunt and fish with your mouse for that little "V" again! :)

Terry
Computer: Dell XPS 8700-1751BLK | Intel i7 4790@3.6Mhz | 16GB DDR3 1600Mhz | Windows 10 Pro x64 |
MOTU 828 mk3 hybrid

DAWs & Live: MOTU Digital Performer 11.2 | Cantabile 3 Performer
Keyboard Synths: Kawai K5000s, Korg Wavestation
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Re: Biggest issue for not purchasing DP

Post by stubbsonic »

terrybritton wrote:
Michael, I swear to you it is far easier to hold down the "R" key and swipe the mouse across the velocity line at the height you want it at than it is to grab that end-point. You can even see the exact number you are swiping at from the line in the gauge at the far left. (I use the "Flat" ReShape mode when working this way.) Give it a try and you will become a convert and never hunt and fish with your mouse for that little "V" again! :)

Terry
It's a great suggestion and only a slight alteration in terms of steps. But there is a difference between the "deliberate" feeling of taking a point from its existing place in 2D space and feeling yourself drag it to the new place (so you have a real sense of how far you have shifted it) vs dragging and having points snap to your location. It's a different sensation of control.
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Re: Biggest issue for not purchasing DP

Post by Michael Canavan »

terrybritton wrote: Michael, I swear to you it is far easier to hold down the "R" key and swipe the mouse across the velocity line at the height you want it at than it is to grab that end-point. You can even see the exact number you are swiping at from the line in the gauge at the far left. (I use the "Flat" ReShape mode when working this way.) Give it a try and you will become a convert and never hunt and fish with your mouse for that little "V" again! :)

Terry
The Reshape is not helpful when there are two velocities that are almost on top of each other and you only want to lower or raise one. It's not helpful when you don't want your velocities to have a "shape" in terms of what I'm talking about here. I'm not wanting smooth or inorganic velocity curves, only interested in using the actual GUI v for single velocity shaping, which even while not ideal is better than anything you guys are offering up. The Reshape function is a great tool, in conjunction with being able to simply grab a v and adjust an errant velocity layer. Not trying to be difficult but you guys are proving my point, work arounds don't make up for a feature that could be better. Yes it doesn't break DP, no it's not as elegant as it could be.
This all reminds me I have to have the v again, someone made a nice little square that adds enough pixels to make it less cumbersome, but every update it gets replaced. :?
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