DP9: Editing w/ external waveform editor destroys audio

[m2pi]

1) "Broadcast WAVE" is set as the default audio format (24-bit 48000hz)
2) "WaveLab 8.5" is set as external waveform editor
3) On DP9, I record audio
4) While the recorded soundbite is selected, I select "Edit in waveform editor"
5) The external waveform editor opens... no problem. I edit the file, save and close.
6) Then I return to DP9, and... the edited audio is now FULL OF STATIC NOISE. It is thoroughly destroyed.

Now that's a nasty bug, I'd say.

Back in DP7, I noticed the same bug, but I was able to select "Sound Designer II" as the default audio... and it was fine for me.

Now that MOTU took away the SD2 option, it's not OK.

Of course I can select "AIFF" as default, BUT it still screws up the audio.

Needless to say, WaveLab 8.5 is the de facto professional standard waveform editor, and it works just fine with various audio formats, except for the audio files (both AIF and WAV) generated by Digital Performer.

I know someone posted a thread re: "Processing audio in Adobe Audition messes up DP audio" ( viewtopic.php?f=1&t=61002&p=518540&hili ... or#p518540 ) and I bet my case here is somewhat related.

Any thoughts / insights, please?

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Sounds serious, but I'd want to hear from others using the same software to suspect a bug rather than a glitch in your system.

As far as anything being "de facto..." I don't buy that. Pro Tools is the "de facto" DAW, yet the best composers and engineers depend on DP (and other software.). Then there's Waves, the "de facto plug in" and there again, we see people dropping it like a hot potato(e) after years of use/abuse.

I don't doubt you're having the problem and I wish I had a solution, but until we see someone else reporting it, it remains limited to your system.

Have you contacted MOTU on it? If it's that serious, that would be the logical first step (although this board does provide instant gratification and sometimes, correct answers...).



Anyone else seeing this?

[stubbsonic]

If you took the same audio file that you edited externally (that was messed up when it came back to DP) -- does that same edited file still play normally in the external editor? In other words, is it something that WaveLab is doing to the file that DP doesn't like, but WaveLab still likes?

I say that because when you say "It is thoroughly destroyed" I just wondered if that was true or if it was just made unreadable DP but was still readable by WaveLab.

You could instead of "open in external editor" you could export the file and see if you get the same result.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Good point. Thanks, Stubby.

[terrybritton]

(although this board does provide instant gratification and sometimes, correct answers...).

I've suffered a streak of providing correct answers, and am trying to remedy that situation. I'll start here, with no answer whatsoever, but instead will start with a question.

I am trying to fathom what sort of damage could be done to a file that would throw off its data so severely that static noise would result. A damaged header? WaveLab being set to 96000 when the arriving file was 44100? Anybody have any idea? That might indicate what settings could be off in DP or WaveLab that could cause such a thing.

I know, this is a question almost posing as an answer, but I swear to you it is actually a question, and a question only.

Terry

[m2pi]

Sounds serious, but I'd want to hear from others using the same software to suspect a bug rather than a glitch in your system.

As far as anything being "de facto..." I don't buy that. Pro Tools is the "de facto" DAW, yet the best composers and engineers depend on DP (and other software.). Then there's Waves, the "de facto plug in" and there again, we see people dropping it like a hot potato(e) after years of use/abuse.

I don't doubt you're having the problem and I wish I had a solution, but until we see someone else reporting it, it remains limited to your system.

Have you contacted MOTU on it? If it's that serious, that would be the logical first step (although this board does provide instant gratification and sometimes, correct answers...).



Anyone else seeing this?

I've encountered the same bug while using DP7.24. It was about 5 years ago when I reported the bug to MOTU, but now I really REALLY need to get this bug squashed since they took away the "SoundDesigner II" option.

[m2pi]

I created a video to show you how this bug appears:
https://youtu.be/NyxcrAj08o4

[stubbsonic]

Ok. Please look at my post above. The question is whether WaveLab has changed the format of the audio when it saved.

I've gotten that kind of a result from trying to open audio with incompatible formats like float 32, etc.

Your example sounds like a BIG gain boost, wrapped waveform. That doesn't matter.

Here's what I want you to do. Click on the "destroyed" audio and try to open it again in your external editor. See if the editor plays it back the same way-- and let us know. That will help us determine what is happening.

Does WaveLab let you set preferences for importing/saving/exporting? You showed the DP prefs, but didn't show the wavelab prefs.

Finally, when you are in WaveLab, if you have an option to Save As... see if there is a the broadcast wav option from in there.

[mikehalloran]

Editing in the Waveform Editor is destructive. OK... When you edit in WaveLab 8.5, you are changing the audio.

I'm not understanding how this can be a DP bug when you are changing the audio with a 3rd party app.

What does Steinberg support say?

Does WaveLab 9, the current version, give the same result?

[stubbsonic]

Editing in the Waveform Editor is destructive. OK... When you edit in WaveLab 8.5, you are changing the audio.

I'm not understanding how this can be a DP bug when you are changing the audio with a 3rd party app.

Does WaveLab 9, the current version, give the same result?

I think he understands that the edit is destructive, what is happening is that WaveLab is making a change that DP can't read. Though, somewhat admirably, it doesn't stop DP from "trying".

It is entirely possible that Wavelab is not broadcast wav compatible. He said that AIF does the same thing, but, if Wavelab is not saving the file in the same format in which it was imported/loaded, then that is what will happen.

Hopefully, m2pi will check wavelab's prefs and do the tests I mentioned. He could do all the trimming in DP, so all the other kinds of edits he wants in wavelab, and just make sure he isn't saving in the wrong format.

[m2pi]

OK here's what I found:

1) There is no such audio file option as "Broadcast WAVE" in WaveLab.
2) Both DP and WaveLab seem to recognise the recorded audio as "24 bit 48000 hz WAV mono".
3) However... here's something really weird. I quit DP & relaunch the Project ... et voila! The once-corrupted files play back just fine. From there, I can "edit with external editor" over and over, and everything functions just fine.

So it seems to me that DP loses track internally of what audio format/resolution it's handling. DP somehow applies a wrong interpreter upon re-analysing the externally-edited audio.

But ... does that mean we have to restart DP every time I want to edit the audio w/ an external waveform editor? What is the feature "Use External Waveform Editor" for, anyway?

[mikehalloran]

Apparently, according to Steinberg, WaveLab 9 supports Broadcast WAV.

https://www.steinberg.net/en/products/w ... sting.html

WaveLab supports the MPEG 1 Layer 2 (M.U.S.I.C.A.M.) file format, which is commonly used in digital broadcast systems, as well as Broadcast WAV, next to more than 15 further audio formats, among them AAC iTunes, FLAC, MP3, OGG, including a variety of encoders and support for metadata. Also, WaveLab includes full DDP support.

Perhaps it's time to update.

[stubbsonic]

So it seems to me that DP loses track internally of what audio format/resolution it's handling. DP somehow applies a wrong interpreter upon re-analysing the externally-edited audio.

But ... does that mean we have to restart DP every time I want to edit the audio w/ an external waveform editor? What is the feature "Use External Waveform Editor" for, anyway?

You seems much more willing to assign blame to DP for the issue. It is not unreasonable for DP to expect that an external editor isn't going to change the file format. It is also quite possible that DP check file formats when it loads a project and convert any audio files it finds that are not the correct format-- I'm pretty sure that's what it does.

When you have an incorrect header, that is what the audio can sound like.

I guess if updating to WaveLab 9 is going to cost you $100 (?), then you might hesitate.

It sounds like you tested other file formats, but just make sure you are matching between the two programs.

[m2pi]

Apparently, according to Steinberg, WaveLab 9 supports Broadcast WAV.

https://www.steinberg.net/en/products/w ... sting.html

WaveLab supports the MPEG 1 Layer 2 (M.U.S.I.C.A.M.) file format, which is commonly used in digital broadcast systems, as well as Broadcast WAV, next to more than 15 further audio formats, among them AAC iTunes, FLAC, MP3, OGG, including a variety of encoders and support for metadata. Also, WaveLab includes full DDP support.

Perhaps it's time to update.

I do not think the issue has to do with Wavelab or any other editors.

I found this DP playback bug way back in ver. 7. However, back then DP7 allowed us to select Sound Designer II format as default, which enabled us to use external editor without an issue.

Now that in DP9 the only selectable audio formats are Broadcast WAV and AIFF. Whether selecting the former or the latter, DP plays back funny after the soundbite is edited via external waveform editor (BUT functions just fine after quitting/relaunching DP).

Your thoughts?

[m2pi]

So it seems to me that DP loses track internally of what audio format/resolution it's handling. DP somehow applies a wrong interpreter upon re-analysing the externally-edited audio.

But ... does that mean we have to restart DP every time I want to edit the audio w/ an external waveform editor? What is the feature "Use External Waveform Editor" for, anyway?

You seems much more willing to assign blame to DP for the issue. It is not unreasonable for DP to expect that an external editor isn't going to change the file format. It is also quite possible that DP check file formats when it loads a project and convert any audio files it finds that are not the correct format-- I'm pretty sure that's what it does.

When you have an incorrect header, that is what the audio can sound like.

I guess if updating to WaveLab 9 is going to cost you $100 (?), then you might hesitate.

It sounds like you tested other file formats, but just make sure you are matching between the two programs.

I wrote back to Mike a few minutes ago, but let me repeat; this same playback bug was present in DP7.

Back then BIAS PEAK was my editor, and DP7 would mess up the audio file if:
1) "AIFF" is selected as default
2) "Broadcast WAVE" is selected as default
so the only selectable audio format was Sound Designer II.

Now that SD2 is not supported under DP9, I am having to face this old DP bug.

Again, as I mentioned several times above, the seemingly corrupted audio files play back just fine after quitting & relaunching the DP9 project.