DP9: Editing w/ external waveform editor destroys audio

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m2pi
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Re: DP9: Editing w/ external waveform editor destroys audio

Post by m2pi »

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:
m2pi wrote:I am astonished to find out how rude, condescending, and insincere some members are while others are trying to solve issues.
You can read that into a post just from text. Amazing! :rofl:
Don't take it personal, please (unless you want to). I just want this bug squashed ASAP so that our production workflow runs smooth.
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Re: DP9: Editing w/ external waveform editor destroys audio

Post by MIDI Life Crisis »

All work and no play... not my style. I work too hard when i do work and if I can't find levity within the problems and pain I'd go nuts. Some people just want cut and dry tech info. How boring is that! ;)

AS far as takingANYTHING personally, I never do from anonymous sources and rarely from people who have the nuts to actually say who they are.

Bottom line: MOTU knows about it and so can (theoretically) fix it - someday.
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Re: DP9: Editing w/ external waveform editor destroys audio

Post by m2pi »

stubbsonic wrote:If you took the same audio file that you edited externally (that was messed up when it came back to DP) -- does that same edited file still play normally in the external editor? In other words, is it something that WaveLab is doing to the file that DP doesn't like, but WaveLab still likes?

I say that because when you say "It is thoroughly destroyed" I just wondered if that was true or if it was just made unreadable DP but was still readable by WaveLab.

You could instead of "open in external editor" you could export the file and see if you get the same result.
I thought I replied earlier, but I might've failed to do so... or maybe I wrote back to the MOTU tech support & forgot to update here...

It turns out that the soundbites themselves are intact.

DP appears to lose track of which bit resolution the soundbite is set up, and interprets the 24-bit audio w/ its 16-bit interpreter.

Data beyond the 16-bit bandwidth (i.e., the 17th - 24th bit) appear to be wrapped around. The 17th bit data chunk appears at around the 1st bit. I discovered this while test-recording a sine wave audio.
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Re: DP9: Editing w/ external waveform editor destroys audio

Post by stubbsonic »

That all makes perfect sense, in terms of how it sounds.

Sounds like it was a bug after all.
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Re: DP9: Editing w/ external waveform editor destroys audio

Post by HCMarkus »

Always nice when the reason for a performance anomaly is clearly identifiable and repeatable.

Nice detective work, and thanks for reporting back.
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Re: DP9: Editing w/ external waveform editor destroys audio

Post by James Steele »

m2pi wrote:PS: As I read through some replies, I am astonished to find out how rude, condescending, and insincere some members are while others are trying to solve issues.
I agree. It wouldn't hurt some people to me more diplomatic. If they can't take the time to soften their language a bit then just say nothing. And sometimes making posts that don't really contribute other than to make a joke clutter the board.
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Re: DP9: Editing w/ external waveform editor destroys audio

Post by CT »

Apologies for not reading the whole thread, so if this has been commented on already please forgive me (I`m pushed for time).
I have this same problem with RX5 (and 4 before it).
For me the corruption occurs on any newly recorded or bounced files in the project.
The workaround is to save and close the project after recording / bouncing and then re-open it to do your external editing. A PITA I know, but better than listening to static. BTW if you have a static filled soundbite that won`t restore correctly when re-opening a file, trash the analysis" overview_waveform xx" files for that audio, but don`t trash the "analysis" file.
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Re: DP9: Editing w/ external waveform editor destroys audio

Post by mikehalloran »

CT wrote:Apologies for not reading the whole thread, so if this has been commented on already please forgive me (I`m pushed for time).
I have this same problem with RX5 (and 4 before it).
For me the corruption occurs on any newly recorded or bounced files in the project.
The workaround is to save and close the project after recording / bouncing and then re-open it to do your external editing. A PITA I know, but better than listening to static. BTW if you have a static filled soundbite that won`t restore correctly when re-opening a file, trash the analysis" overview_waveform xx" files for that audio, but don`t trash the "analysis" file.
Not quite following you here. Are you using the RX plugins or the stand-alone app from the beginning? Are you looping the audio through the stand-alone app and back into DP or processing inside the app separately?
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Re: DP9: Editing w/ external waveform editor destroys audio

Post by CT »

I use both:
- RX5 Plug-ins work ok.
- RX5 standalone... select a soundbite / "use external waveform editor" (RX5) / treat / save... then when I switch back to DP the file is corrupted if the file is "new" to the project.

So the workaround is to save your DP project after any new audio is recorded / bounced. Then open the DP project again and you can now use external Editor (e.g. RX5 standalone) / treat / save... then switch back to DP with no problems.
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Re: DP9: Editing w/ external waveform editor destroys audio

Post by mikehalloran »

CT wrote:I use both:
- RX5 Plug-ins work ok...
In RX 6 some plugs are even better with lower latency and a few are new. If a tool will work better as a plug, that's always my first choice. But as you know, not all do and some are just better working in the app.
CT wrote: ... - RX5 standalone... select a soundbite / "use external waveform editor" (RX5) / treat / save... then when I switch back to DP the file is corrupted if the file is "new" to the project.

So the workaround is to save your DP project after any new audio is recorded / bounced. Then open the DP project again and you can now use external Editor (e.g. RX5 standalone) / treat / save... then switch back to DP with no problems.
Ok, I get it now... Yea, I never liked that. I copy the track (or bounce if there are edits) and work on the file in the RX app outside of DP, then bring back into my project.

I use Advanced and many of the tools through 5 were never available as plugs. This changed in RX 6A and only a few are no longer plugins.
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Re: DP9: Editing w/ external waveform editor destroys audio

Post by CT »

The "use in external waveform editor" used to work perfectly, a very quick way of painting something out and getting straight back to DP. Now it`s just a PITA. (BTW I`m on RX5A)
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Re: DP9: Editing w/ external waveform editor destroys audio

Post by mikehalloran »

CT wrote:The "use in external waveform editor" used to work perfectly, a very quick way of painting something out and getting straight back to DP. Now it`s just a PITA. (BTW I`m on RX5A)
Agreed—that's not right. I'd certainly send that to both Izotope and MOTU.

You might download the 6A demo first just to see if there's a difference.
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Re: DP9: Editing w/ external waveform editor destroys audio

Post by CT »

I talked to both iZotope and Motu back when I was on RX4A. They suggested trying RX5A...
They`ve had a couple of years to do something about it so I don`t have much faith that they will. RX6A... yet another $299 upgrade. Every year is a new update. I`ve paid for RX1, 2, 4A and 5A. I`m not saying it doesn`t work but it is relatively expensive when I already have the other tools. The lavalier de-rustle is the only thing that I`ve got my eyes on.
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Re: DP9: Editing w/ external waveform editor destroys audio

Post by mikehalloran »

CT wrote:... The lavalier de-rustle is the only thing that I`ve got my eyes on.
For me, it's De-plosive as a plugin and the new Spectral De-ess.

The new De-bleed works great but it solves a non-problem. I can't recall headphone bleed ever causing problems in a mix. I wonder about some of the other new tools as well.

I've written before about a track from hell that I recorded in the '90s to DP 2.7. It was a chamber music concert riddled with explosions from a fireworks concert 100 yards away. Summing the sides of an M+S recording to mono saved my butt on that back then, making the explosions barely audible. It looks like I'm getting another bite at it — one of those pieces is going to be released on a compilation album and I've been asked to remaster those tracks. I already gave a quote that amortized my $299 upgrade and am going to see how good RX 6A really is as I try to deliver a true stereo recording of that concert. I'll post excerpts of the original, the mono and the new mix on my SoundCloud account sometime this summer.
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