MIDI Latency Compensation

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terrybritton
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Re: MIDI Latency Compensation

Post by terrybritton »

Yiannis wrote:Hi Marcus,

I don't know if its Kronos so I have two more tests.
One in LogicX and one in DP 9.12 both at 256 buffer.

As you can see Logic is more accurate but a little ahead..perhaps not a big deal.

Dp 9.12 on the other hand is about a 64th later......thats a lot!!
According to a comment on the MIDI Jitter article I posted above, "Actually, the behavior has been confirmed by plugin developers for Logic (see the comments on my article). The MIDI sample offsets in Logic are not set when processing live MIDI, they are set when using the built in sequencer."

I've appended my post above with more details extracted from his comments at Synthtopia as to his methodology which may be of interest here.

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HCMarkus
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Re: MIDI Latency Compensation

Post by HCMarkus »

Yiannis wrote: As you can see Logic is more accurate but a little ahead..perhaps not a big deal.

Dp 9.12 on the other hand is about a 64th later......thats a lot!!
That's what Fine Tune I/O Timing offset adjustment is designed to address. Experiment with this and you will be able to get things lined up in DP. As you can see from my post on page two of this thread, my system has MID (via USB)I and Audio lined up to within 130-520 samples (3-12 ms at 44.1k) depending on buffer size.

When you work with Fine Tune I/O Timing, it is wise to note the setting you start with (automatically generated by DP) and those you experiment with so you can easily return to the setting that gives you the best results.

If you work with VIs and ever send VI audio out and back in to DP, you might want to check VI response as you are experimenting with I/O Timing, too. I found that if I advance MIDI against Audio to make external MIDI (USB) line up perfectly with Audio, DP delivers VI Audio early when the VI Audio is output from DP externally then routed back in to DP (digitally, via a MOTU 828mkII). MIDI and VI Audio lined up perfectly when processed within DP regardless of I/O Timing settings.
Armageddon
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Re: MIDI Latency Compensation

Post by Armageddon »

I know this is an old thread, but I wanted to bring something up I didn't read anywhere else on here: I've had audio timing issues since at least v5, and possibly earlier than that. In recording straight MIDI and VI audio -- and this is likely why many of you never noticed this issue -- I've had zero problems. MIDI tracks playing VIs seem to sync up perfectly with pre-recorded VI tracks, or even recorded VI audio that has been further processed (i.e. - VI DI guitars that have been run through an amp sim). Where I notice the problem is when I'm scoring to film. Inside DP, everything lines up perfectly. Then, I bounce my mix to stereo (nothing on the master fader) and the resulting mix is behind the picture by a significant amount. In other words, bouncing audio tracks inside of DP does not seem to affect the timing; the MIDI and other audio tracks still line up, but I'm experiencing a significant degree of timing issues outside of DP. I've also experienced this when working in other DAWs with tracks I've recorded in DP. I can import a track into DP from another DAW with no problem, but exporting tracks from DP, In notice a significant timing issue.
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mwilloam
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Re: MIDI Latency Compensation

Post by mwilloam »

I commented on this early on but tonight I seem to have become a victim and it may be a bug, and if it is it's kind of a big deal.

My issue was recording MIDI direct from roland v-drums into DP9.12 via both Roland usb and Fastlane usb. Audio was monitored direct through 1248 mixer while DP played back track.

What I found was that the higher the buffer was in DP, the earlier the MIDI was recorded relative the the audio from the V-drums. The lower the buffer, the closer they were.

I noticed no difference when changing all settings in MIDI patch thru/sync recorded MIDI etc. You can see the offset here:
https://goo.gl/photos/wq4KdT7M9XP6B6ia9

Anyone had any luck?
westlake79
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Re: MIDI Latency Compensation

Post by westlake79 »

I am having this same problem. Just occurred on 9.01. No idea what's causing it.

I play in time, and the MIDI notes show up about an 8th note early on the piano roll.
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HCMarkus
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Re: MIDI Latency Compensation

Post by HCMarkus »

Reposting this from earlier; it may shed some light... note Bold Section

I experimented with my system and confirmed the Fine Tune I/O Timing offset adjustment does work but only on audio that LEAVES from and RETURNS to DP; it does not effect internal timing (Audio to Audio, VI to Audio), which I found to be extremely accurate. I used a 44.1k sample rate to test and routed audio from DP thru my 828mkII and back again, all in the digital domain.

With playback/record values of -168/+160, timing on my system is super when running with buffers of 256 or greater.

Experimenting with BFD and NI VIs, I found BFD returned audio perfectly in time with the MIDI trigger at buffers of 256 or greater. NI Battery appeared to delay 40 samples even after I trimmed the hit hat sample I was using (about 1 millisecond at 44k sample rate), so I used BFD for my testing. At a buffer of 128, audio and VI's are returning about 6 samples early. I can't run a smaller buffer with my 828mkII.

Although audio and VI playback timing is very accurate and consistent across buffer sizes, triggering a Yamaha S90ES (via USB) returns ever-increasing lag as buffer size is increased:

Buffer 128 = 130 samples late (About 3 milliseconds)
Buffer 256 = 260 samples late (6 ms)
Buffer 512 = 520 samples late (12 ms)

It appears MOTU has not properly compensated for buffer size impacts on MIDI data output; interesting to note that the relationship between buffer size and delay in samples is linear, suggesting a possible easy fix in an equation somewhere within DP. This finding is somewhat troubling but, because I don't often record hardware synths, not a big issue for me. Of course, latency like this can be easily fixed by sliding a track in time post-recording.

If you want MIDI to line up with your VIs sounding on input, I continue to believe the "Sync MIDI" preference I discussed earlier in this thread is the key.
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Re: MIDI Latency Compensation

Post by TnMike »

I’m having timing issues as well. I’m routing my (IAC driver) audio click to a track to print a count off click for tracks I’m exporting to another studio. After recording, It shows up very early (unusable). I switched to a MIDI click (Superior Drummer 2) and the track recorded spot on. Might be a driver issue? Just a guess...


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