DP 9.12 Metronome is recording EARLY?!

[LGK_Dude]

Hello everyone,

I'm experiencing something very strange. My previous projects worked fine in DP9.02, but since updating to DP9.12, when I record my internal metronome (double click the metronome, send the audio click to a bus, and record the bus on an audio track) the resulting click is noticeably early vs the bar lines. I actually have to nudge it back 017 for it to be in time! I've never seen anything like this, and I bounce out audio clicks for every cue, so I'm stumped! This project is only about 30 audio file - no MIDI instruments.

I'm not a power user by any means, so hopefully someone can point me in the direction of what might be the problem. I did recently update my OS (went from 10.9.5 to 10.11.6) and did a fresh install from scratch, but I did restore my DP preference files / key commands / audio setup from a backup. Perhaps there is a preference that is messed up? Or maybe a new setting in 9.12?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

[LGK_Dude]

Update: If I go into "configure Studio Settings:" and turn off "Automatic plug-in latency compensation" and then record the click, its right on the grid. As soon as I turn this back on, the recorded click is early again. So it looks like DP is over compensating for plugin-in latency.

Any idea how to fix this? I'm using the exact same plugins I used in DP9.0 and never had this problem! So I'm confused as to why its happening now, or how to fix it.

[HCMarkus]

Are you running the click through a buss that has a plug in on it (like a mastering limiter?)

Try removing the plug ins from master buss or recording click using a different buss.

Or record click from a "New Mix" that is devoid of plug ins.

[LGK_Dude]

Ran another test. Opened a project in which I had previously recorded the click track in DP9.02. This project does have UAD plugins on my master bus, but the click track is routed to its own mono bus (bus 7) and is recorded onto an audio track directly (audio input on bus 7). There are no plugins on the click bus.

In DP9.02 the click was recorded 100% in time with the grid. Same project opened in DP9.12, recording the click results in the click ahead of the beat. If I then turn off automatic plugin delay compensation, the click is recorded 100% in time with the grid.

So there is for sure something wrong with DP9.12 and plugin delay compensation, at least on my system. Any help would be great. Of course my work around will be turning of PDC when recording my click, but this timing issue has me worried on future projects, especially when it comes time to record live audio! Any ideas on how to fix the issue? "not using plugins" isn't really an option as they are vital for my sound. Perhaps I should just downgrade back to 9.02, though I could really use the CPU improvements in 9.12...

Any help would be appreciated.

[Tesionman]

Yes, just tested it and also noticed that the bounced click e a bit ahead of the beat.

[TinenTech]

I wonder if the Next gen-Pre gen feature of 9.12 is involved?

Try doing this (from a MOTU FAQ) : "toggle the "Run Open Instances of This Plug-In in Real-Time" option in the Mini-Menu of any [I would suggest all] plug-in window[s]."

Maybe there's something affecting the click to make it time-align with the pre-rendered plugin...if this solves the problem, instead of changing delay compensation. In fact, I don't understand how the new "Pre gen" feature affects delay compensation at all...shouldn't it just eliminate it?

[greg328]

I'm having a similar but different issue with DP 9.12. My click is "sounding early" in relation to the grid, but if I bus it out and record it, it's spot on.

When I record my Motif XS8 piano against the click, generated internally from DP, all the MIDI data is noticeably early. Once aligned to the grid, the MIDI piano performance sounds late against the click, so the click is for sure "sounding" early.

One thing I changed recently that "may" be party to this anomaly: I switched out my MOTU HD192/PCI-424 system (after 15 years) and replaced it with a UA Apollo Firewire. (I've been wanting access to the excellent UAD-2 plug-ins).

One thing I need to try today--reduce the buffer. Maybe a large buffer affects click timing? I would hope not--but I'll find out today. Any ideas?
Thanks,
Greg

[greg328]

Turns out buffer size does indeed affect the click timing. Bummer. I don't remember this being an issue with my previous PCI-based I/O system.

Does anybody else experience click issues with large buffer settings?

Greg

[Tesionman]

Turns out buffer size does indeed affect the click timing. Bummer. I don't remember this being an issue with my previous PCI-based I/O system.

Does anybody else experience click issues with large buffer settings?

Greg

When I bounce the click here on my system, it is right on the beat only when I remove any plugin from the Master track. Even if you bypass the plugins in the Master track it is still a little bit off the grid. So you have to remove them completely.

I also tested bouncing MIDI drums to an audio track and the timing seems correct with or without plugins in the Master track. Also tested this with another DAW with exactly the same results.

I also tested bouncing the click on the other DAW with no grid timing issues with and without plugins on the Master track.

I wonder why that only happens in DP regardless of what buffer setting you have.

See image below:
Top track without plugin on the master track
Bottom track with plugins on the master track

[TnMike]

I’m still having the same problem as the people above. Anyone find a remedy?
Thanks, Mike

[HCMarkus]

Definitely noticing buffer size impacting placement of MIDI events when recording.