10.11.6/DP8.07 - MIDI Keyboard input stops working

[Gabe S.]

Hi.

The arrival of the iPhone 7 was the final kicker to get me to upgrade off of 10.8.5. Yup, it's been a nightmare. And I'm [not really] laughing at the irony that I don't have this new 10.11.6 system working yet and 10.12 has just been released......ack.

Anyway, I have decided to start with a bare drive and build my whole system back up. It's painful, but it usually pays off with a fairly smooth running computer. I have reinstalled just about everything from scratch to make my music setup work. It all works fine except for one nagging and super annoying problem, and I'm wondering if anyone else has experienced this:

After some period of time functioning normally, AudioMIDI Setup will suddenly ignore incoming MIDI from my Kurzweil keyboard. I must click the Rescan MIDI button and then it pops back to life. It will run for about 30 minutes, and I can be in the middle of playing and then all of a sudden, the sound just stops and MIDI is no longer recognized. If there's MIDI in the sequence, DP will still be able to play the MIDI notes----it's just the live incoming MIDI that's ignored, until I hit Rescan and it all pops back on.

Anyone else run into this?

I've fully re-created my MIDI setup in AudioMIDI Setup hoping that would clear it.....it didn't.

I've never had this happen before on any setup so I'm at a loss......I guess I'll be calling tech support for both Apple and MOTU unless someone can give me a clue.....

It's a shame because I got all the audio stuff up and running in two days which is a record for me. To run into a bug like this is such a bummer...

[Shooshie]

Do you have access to the old AudioMidi saved files? I don't remember if they are stored somewhere or what, but somehow I've managed to get them across several computers. Before I did that, and we're talking 8 years ago or so, AudioMidi was doing that to me. Actually, the whole setup was just disappearing. It didn't recognize anything. When I started going back to old, working saved setups, it worked, and hasn't had a problem since. But I'm not in Sierra OS. Maybe what's happening now is different. That's just my experience up through El Capitan.

Shooshie

[Gabe S.]

HI Shooshie.

Yeah, I know where the AudioMIDI setups are located and originally, I was using one of those. I rebuilt the Setup from scratch and that didn't help either.

However, I called MOTU's tech support today and they gave me a couple things to try. He was wondering if the MTP AV was getting messed up somehow.

First, I dug up my Novation USB MIDI controller. I plugged it directly into the computer via USB and voila----the problem was gone. So the question was, is the MTP AV bad or is the connection to the computer, because it goes through a USB hub. I have a couple hubs attached, so I switched the MTP AV to the other USB and hub---poof---problem disappeared.

So, I guess the USB hub that the MTP AV was connected through must be old or something and doesn't like El Capitan because it's worked many many years without issue until 10.11.6 went on. I ordered a new one so that the other devices connected through it don't have any weirdness too.

By the way, the MOTU tech was clear------DP8.07 is not supported AT ALL with 10.11.6. He said I was on my own with that configuration. I told him that DP9 loses digital sync for me and is unusable. He claimed to never have heard of that issue. I went to this forum while we were on the phone and I started reading him posts from the thread dealing with that problem......I'm definitely not the only one with that issue.

Anyway, I have fully rebuilt my rig from scratch into 10.11.6. I seem to have to do this every few years. I really hate it....takes me 4 days of tearing my hair out trying to find all the settings and prefs. Ugh. Just authorizing the Kontakt libraries is silly. It's over 40 libraries!

[Shooshie]

Anyway, I have fully rebuilt my rig from scratch into 10.11.6. I seem to have to do this every few years. I really hate it....takes me 4 days of tearing my hair out trying to find all the settings and prefs. Ugh. Just authorizing the Kontakt libraries is silly. It's over 40 libraries!

I'm glad you figured it out. I think I've heard of that before. A hub starts going wonky. It may also be that the MTP has a dead battery. It could be that the hub has always had sporadic power, and now that MTP's battery is dead, the sporadic power is a problem. But that's just guessing. I did have to replace my MTP battery at some point. In any case, you've figured it out.

I'm contemplating the same thing you did. I really NEED to install my next OS from scratch, but I won't be doing it anyway, until some of my critical apps are verified working. That includes JiTouch for the Magic Trackpad, QuicKeys (which may finally get its death-blow from Sierra), Wallander Instruments, and a few others. When I do get around to this, I've got to do what you did, and I think I have all my authorizations, codes, and serial numbers, but I'll have to re-up my Waves membership again to get that authorized. Ugh. More useless expense. Not looking forward to it. Last time took a couple weeks before I could use everything without worrying about interruptions in the form of dialogs asking for some darned code. And we're the PAYING customers!

Good to hear from you, Gabe. Been a long time. Again.

Shoosh

[stubbsonic]

By the way, the MOTU tech was clear------DP8.07 is not supported AT ALL with 10.11.6.

Thanks for passing that on. I somehow missed that.

I don't love 10.10.5. Annoying bugs in iCal and Mail, with workarounds. Preview's built-in drawing/editing tools now suck. But otherwise, things seem to be stable in DP land. I'm going to skip El Cap.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

FWIW, a few weeks ago I started having "connectivity" issues and tracked it to a USB hub. I had an ilok connected to it and DP wouldn't launch my VIs. Again, in the end it was the hub that was the problem.

[Gabe S.]

I'm glad you figured it out. I think I've heard of that before. A hub starts going wonky. It may also be that the MTP has a dead battery. It could be that the hub has always had sporadic power, and now that MTP's battery is dead, the sporadic power is a problem. But that's just guessing. I did have to replace my MTP battery at some point. In any case, you've figured it out.

I'm contemplating the same thing you did. I really NEED to install my next OS from scratch, but I won't be doing it anyway, until some of my critical apps are verified working. That includes JiTouch for the Magic Trackpad, QuicKeys (which may finally get its death-blow from Sierra), Wallander Instruments, and a few others. When I do get around to this, I've got to do what you did, and I think I have all my authorizations, codes, and serial numbers, but I'll have to re-up my Waves membership again to get that authorized. Ugh. More useless expense. Not looking forward to it. Last time took a couple weeks before I could use everything without worrying about interruptions in the form of dialogs asking for some darned code. And we're the PAYING customers!

Good to hear from you, Gabe. Been a long time. Again.

Shoosh

Yes, the MOTU tech also suspected the battery in the MTP AV, but suggested by starting with USB connections. Funny how a USB hub can change characteristics with a different OS.....it just shows you the endless ways you can get caught out....Anyway, he was very nice and I appreciated his input.

I'll tell you one thing that was really annoying----I have used Kontakt 4 in a LOT of projects over the years. And sometimes I have to go backwards into them. If it was possible to have K4 still running, I would really benefit from that. I could tell from just dragging the K4 plugin into the Components folder that it would launch (in demo mode) and at least show me what was loaded. So, I wanted K4 to be fully installed so that when I go back to an old session, at least it will pull up so I can save the instance as a Multi and then re-open it in K5. Guess what....basically any old CD installer of Kontakt 4 won't install it because it mistakenly thinks 10.11 is 10.1 and it requires at least 10.5, so it just refuses to install. I called NI support and they said I was totally out of luck. They refused to help at all.....they told me they could not justify hiring programmers to fix an installer for an unsupported product. He actually went on and on about how products don't last forever....blah blah....ok ok I get it, but it's just the installer that's not working. I mean c'mon. So, I wondered if I could dig into the main installer CD of Komplete 6, which has K4. I right-clicked and selected Show Package Contents, and the whole list of individual installers appeared. I found the installers I needed for K4 and they installed no problem! I can report that K4 installs and authorizes and opens just fine in 10.11.6 and DP8.07. He couldn't have just told me that? I've been banging my head for 4 days on the side of this computer trying to upgrade it and get it working again and running into stupid bugs like funky USB hubs. I don't need lectures about supported and unsupported products.....You know what would have been clever of NI? If they had made some side plugin that could recognize an old instance of Kontakt in a session and then it opens that instance with the current version of Kontakt. That would be useful. And honestly, NI should have a more efficient system for switching computers. Having to manually enter over 40 NI serial numbers is just stupid. Why can't Service Center look up all your purchases it has on file, and then present a big checklist for you to choose what you want authorized on that machine.

hehe, yeah I know I've been pretty silent on the forum. I've been checking in regularly just trying to get a vibe on what's the latest with DP9. It still seems to be problematic to the point that I need to stay in DP8. That's a bummer. The losing-digital-sync issue alone is forcing me to stay away. And I find it alarming that the tech claims he's never heard of this issue, and we're already up to 9.12.....I have to admit that I haven't tried very hard to figure out what it is. I'll dig in more once I'm fully up and running----you know, with my fully unsupported 8.07....C'mon, I love latest-greatest just as much as the next guy, but I'm forced to use WHAT WORKS! Make something that works and I'll use it! My experience with DP9 so far is that it loses digital sync in just a couple minutes compared to DP8 that never ever did, and DP9 is not as efficient as DP8 because it can't play DP8 sessions cleanly. So----why would I be in a hurry to rush to DP9?

Wow.....never thought this would turn into such a rant! I guess that's what happens when you're stuck in endless upgrade mode day after day....haha!

-g

[Gabe S.]

FWIW, a few weeks ago I started having "connectivity" issues and tracked it to a USB hub. I had an ilok connected to it and DP wouldn't launch my VIs. Again, in the end it was the hub that was the problem.

Interesting. Yeah, it seems these problems are not isolated.

I REALLY want them to look into the DP9 digital sync thing.......I'm not the only one seeing that either...But I'm not ready to take that challenge on yet. Still have more setup to complete on my new OS setup. Key commands, DP effects presets, Altiverb presets.....ugh... the list just goes on and on.

-g

[Shooshie]

Yeah, Gabe, I hear you about NI's lack of real support. That's why I stopped using Kontakt after version 4, and when I got version 5 after a couple years, it sat on a shelf another year or so before I finally installed it. Or maybe that was Kontakt 6. Does that exist? I don't even know what version of Kontakt i have! That's how seldom I use it these days. I've really tried to simplify my VI situation and use only a core set that tend to work after OS updates, or which receive quick fixes. Not saying you should, but that's the path I chose about 5 years ago, when my VI collection was getting unruly.

In defense of the MOTU tech support guys, it's totally comprehensible to me that they could go for some time before seeing some of these problems. They're not pretending. First of all, MOTU Tech Support's famous busy signal trained most of us to try elsewhere like this forum to get answers before calling MOTU. Secondly, when the issues are complicated, we tend to come here to discuss it first, so that we understand what we're dealing with. Only then, if we can't figure out answers, do we call MOTU Tech Support. Usually, when I call, I'm really calling to educate them about an issue. I'll end up explaining it in great detail to the tech support rep, who later gets back to me and says they were able to duplicate it, and it's been escalated to the programmers. So, for me, their tech support is usually the front door to reporting a problem, though more recently I've come to prefer the Tech-Link route on their website. It just requires more typing, but hey... I do that anyway, right?

So, we get it worked out here, then we contact MOTU and tell them about it, and then it gets fixed. That's the way it usually works. Very rarely I will call MOTU for an actual answer to a problem, but when I do, they often are able to help me find the answer.

Shoosh

[Gabe S.]

In defense of the MOTU tech support guys, it's totally comprehensible to me that they could go for some time before seeing some of these problems. They're not pretending. First of all, MOTU Tech Support's famous busy signal trained most of us to try elsewhere like this forum to get answers before calling MOTU. Secondly, when the issues are complicated, we tend to come here to discuss it first, so that we understand what we're dealing with. Only then, if we can't figure out answers, do we call MOTU Tech Support. Usually, when I call, I'm really calling to educate them about an issue. I'll end up explaining it in great detail to the tech support rep, who later gets back to me and says they were able to duplicate it, and it's been escalated to the programmers. So, for me, their tech support is usually the front door to reporting a problem, though more recently I've come to prefer the Tech-Link route on their website. It just requires more typing, but hey... I do that anyway, right?

So, we get it worked out here, then we contact MOTU and tell them about it, and then it gets fixed. That's the way it usually works. Very rarely I will call MOTU for an actual answer to a problem, but when I do, they often are able to help me find the answer.

Shoosh

I certainly have no problem with MOTU techs. I've always found them to be friendly and willing to delve into your problems. A few years ago in 10.6.8, DP wouldn't launch AT ALL on my system. After digging into it, MOTU found it to be a legit problem and escalated it right away and a programmer got involved. They ended up writing me a new audio driver in two days that solved all the issues. That's pretty great. And I value this forum quite a lot for exactly the reasons you say. Between the two, I think there is a healthy environment to help deal with problems.

Anyway, early next week, I should be fully up and running with all apps and prefs. Once I've done that, I'll install DP9.12 on this fresh system and see where I am with it. I can't have a fresher system setup than this.

And by the way, the MOTU tech warned me away from Sierra for the time being.

-g

[HCMarkus]

Despite all the work that goes into a "fresh start", it always feels REALLY GOOD when you finish!

Good Luck and Best Wishes Gabe.

[Gabe S.]

Despite all the work that goes into a "fresh start", it always feels REALLY GOOD when you finish!

Good Luck and Best Wishes Gabe.

Thanks!

For the heck of it, I tried to do a straight upgrade just to see what would happen. I mean, I had ZERO expectations that it would work. And it didn't. Well, actually everything non-music related stuff was totally fine. But none of my audio apps would even launch….I mean c'mon----DP8, DP9, MIO Console, K5 standalone, Plogue Bidule----none of them would get past the splash screen to launch. How awful is that? I've seen buggy upgrades, but this was on a whole other level. On Saturday, I actually called Apple because I figured for it to be this bad, something was just out of whack. They sent me some software that scans my computer and creates a bunch of files that you upload to them. I was supposed to hear from them by yesterday……still haven't heard. In the time I've been waiting, I rebuilt my whole audio system, except for a few prefs and presets which I have to go dig out from the old drive, and it's working quite well now. I'm glad I did because I'm not sure when I'll hear back from them….

btw, if anyone is doing a computer swap----these days Apple mail is exceedingly difficult to transfer over manually. I still haven't resolved that. I have found many articles. None of them have worked for me. It used to be take dragging one folder and one pref. Now it's like 10 files/folders and it still hasn't worked for me. Since all my current mails are IMAP, it's not so bad because that stuff all comes right back in on it's own, but I do have old accounts saved that I like to be able to search…..man this upgrade has been tough.

[Shooshie]

Despite all the work that goes into a "fresh start", it always feels REALLY GOOD when you finish!

The thing is, I never really know if/when I've finished!

[Shooshie]

btw, if anyone is doing a computer swap----these days Apple mail is exceedingly difficult to transfer over manually. I still haven't resolved that. I have found many articles. None of them have worked for me. It used to be take dragging one folder and one pref. Now it's like 10 files/folders and it still hasn't worked for me. Since all my current mails are IMAP, it's not so bad because that stuff all comes right back in on it's own, but I do have old accounts saved that I like to be able to search…..man this upgrade has been tough.

This is not good news. One of the reasons I want to start from scratch is because Mail has gotten so buggy. Out of about 6 email accounts, I can send mail on only 1, and it's not one that I normally would use to send mail! I can still receive email, but I can't send it. I've spent many, many nights trying to fix that, to no avail.

In addition, Messages has not been working, though I've gotten it to work briefly for two or three periods —  maybe a week — before it would stop working again. Every time I try to fix it, I end up having to type in my password on every apple device for every app, and it's a long, unwieldy, unguessable password. One little mistake, and... you know the drill. Not only that, but it wants to use an old Apple ID account that I have not used in 10 years. I do not want it to use that, but I've had to accept it if I want anything to work. So, Messages breaks every time I really need to use it, and Mail will not authorize outgoing mail, regardless how many times I type in the correct password, in 5 accounts. Those same passwords work fine on the iPhone and iPad. But not on my Mac!!!

Geez. My Mac was always the rock. It was the one thing I could depend on. Now I would be terrified if not for my iOS devices for backup, but I hate typing on those. Just give me back my good ol' Mac from back in the days when Steve Jobs made sure it was perfect before it left the building.

[Gabe S.]

This is not good news. One of the reasons I want to start from scratch is because Mail has gotten so buggy. Out of about 6 email accounts, I can send mail on only 1, and it's not one that I normally would use to send mail! I can still receive email, but I can't send it. I've spent many, many nights trying to fix that, to no avail.

In addition, Messages has not been working, though I've gotten it to work briefly for two or three periods —  maybe a week — before it would stop working again. Every time I try to fix it, I end up having to type in my password on every apple device for every app, and it's a long, unwieldy, unguessable password. One little mistake, and... you know the drill. Not only that, but it wants to use an old Apple ID account that I have not used in 10 years. I do not want it to use that, but I've had to accept it if I want anything to work. So, Messages breaks every time I really need to use it, and Mail will not authorize outgoing mail, regardless how many times I type in the correct password, in 5 accounts. Those same passwords work fine on the iPhone and iPad. But not on my Mac!!!

Geez. My Mac was always the rock. It was the one thing I could depend on. Now I would be terrified if not for my iOS devices for backup, but I hate typing on those. Just give me back my good ol' Mac from back in the days when Steve Jobs made sure it was perfect before it left the building.

Yup, those are frustrating problems….obviously a clean fresh start would solve those kinds of issues, but it's a frustrating and time consuming process of digging up all the prefs files so that everything acts the same….You don't want to blindly copy a bunch of useless files over that will just muck up the new system, but you also want the computer to work the way it was working on the old system. It's not easy…that's for sure.