We are the Beta testers

[waterstrum]

We are the believers and confirmed users of DP and as such, we are the Beta testers.

This has been the case for many years.
The first iteration of a new version is always a bit buggy.
I'm sure MOTU is on the case.

9.1 has some issues, but I'm very happy that MOTU is still developing DP.
My favorite platform!

I send my encouragement to MOTU.

[oldtimeytim]

I agree. I've been using Digital Performer, and before that, Performer since 1987. That's almost, gulp, 30 years. Can't think of another piece of software out there that has been so constantly developed and improved over those years. Every once in a while I check out the competition and I realize, man, they're not even close.

[stubbsonic]

DP is a tremendously complex suite of software. It is kind of unfathomable.

And it would be VERY tricky to test for all different kinds of circumstances, 3rd party situations, and combinations of actions & features. So the idea that some bugs will appear in the real world is to be expected. I love that RR is taking care of an organized list here. It's great!

I personally would not consider myself a beta tester (in the sense of your post title); because I am a very cautious updater. Having been burned too many times by OS and application updates, I try to find some stable, workable version and stay with it until some set of new features make updating worthwhile for me. But I try to communicate issues and feature requests with MOTU in the spirit of sharing the vision of improvement.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

I've been saying this for quite a while. The fact that it's a complex app is no excuse for releasing versions that have not been properly and completely tested. Yes, we are beta testers and should be told that a release is a beta, just like Apple does with the OS. Those releases should be unpaid as well. It seems to have started with DP 6 which clearly was not well tested at all.

Except for very few issues DP 9.1 is working ok here so far. But again, it appears the beta testers and/or process of reviewing and quashing known bugs is are/is deficient. That either leads to the conclusion that: A - MOTU is aware of the bugs and thinks it's ok to have them play out in end user systems; B - MOTU is unaware of the bugs for whatever reason(s); or C - MOTU has decided it's ok to release under tested software and then play catch up as reports come in from the end users.

None of these are acceptable IMO. And please, the next time someone says we're all "fanboys" here just point them to this thread.

[Gravity Jim]

Catch a clue and realize this is the state for users of ALL complicated software, whether it manipulates audio and MIDI or edits video or enhances photos. It is never "finished"... it is always a work in progress. Instead of focusing on some feature that doesn't work exactly as you'd hoped, maybe you should take a step back and marvel at everything DP does and that the damned thing works at all.

What makes you think it's not tested? Of course it is. But no group of testers catches everything in a program this big (although many of you have said that if they'd simply bring you on as a beta tester, you'd get the job done, which is highly amusing). The Logic guys and the PT guys and all the guys are bitching about the same stuff on their forums.

BTW, 9.1 doesn't suck. Maybe your Mac is screwed up somehow, but it runs perfectly on my rig, and has radically reduced CPU load as promised.

[Robert Randolph]

This would all be so much better if Motu just released 9.1 and called it a Beta. Then they could have released it on time as well.

As it stands, they made some very lofty promises that came late and not fully fulfilled.

I'm sure they'll get things working, but they haven't really done much in the way of PR to mantain a user's confidence.

[Shooshie]

Well, no, DP 9.1 doesn't suck, but a few of its bugs do. If you can do your work without encountering those bugs, you'll LOVE DP 9.1. For me, however, those bugs hit me squarely in the solar plexus, because they are exactly where I was hoping to do some work right away. Specifically, I'm talking about:

1) Sample Modeling's 'The Cello' overloads the audio engine when the MIDI track is in Record Mode, which forces the VI to run in real time. This worked perfectly in DP9.02 with almost no latency at a 128 or 256 buffer, yet not even a buffer of 1024 samples will make it work in DP 9.1, so this has become a real problem. No other VI that I've tried so far has this problem, but I haven't tried very many.

2) The Continuous Data bug prevents controllers like Breath Control (cc2), Expression (cc11), or even Sustain (cc64) from operating properly when

• a) punching in,
  b) recording over existing data,
  c) starting playback where event chasing might find controllers.

The actual parameters of this bug are complicated, so I won't go into more detail here, but you can read about it in the post I made about it, or in any of the posts that Babz wrote about the Sustain problem. Babz didn't know at the time that these are probably the same bug, so we wrote separately, but they are for all intents and purposes, the same bug, and MOTU is aware and is working on a fix.

Incidentally, when using a MIDI Wind Instrument like the Yamaha WX5, you start to play these instruments under the bug's starting conditions, and you hear a muffled THUMP of a note, rather than a sustained note. This continues throughout its phrase. After a rest, it will continue playing properly, but the first bar or two will not play.

I think that when you're recording, and the first few bars will not play, that constitutes a serious bug, and it indeed sucks. Of course, MOTU didn't do that to us on purpose. It will be fixed. But it's reason enough to avoid DP 9.1 until it IS fixed.

Shooshie

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Again, I've worked around all my issues with 9.1. Really, only the VST thing was a problem and easily solved. There were a couple of other issues but those were actually related to a USB hub problem on the machine. That has been resolved. Finally, Keyboard Maestro sequences get screwed up sometimes and caused additional issues. So yeah, sometimes it's not the update, it's the stuff that's been sitting below the surface that emerges more fully with the new software.

That said, for my system, it is otherwise working flawlessly. Regardless, I'll be buying the next update for sure.

[bayswater]

I have to agree with Jim on this. It's not reasonable or fair to claim that we're all beta testers for MOTU. A lot of people here have done beta testing, but how many have managed the release of new or updated software -- have classified bugs as critical, minor, etc, -- dealt with release schedules and budgets allocated for testing, and so on?

You can spend a lifetime testing all the permutations and eliminating all the places where a workaround might be necessary, and making sure the code works on all possible hardware configurations. There is inevitable conflict between marketing, who want the new release out there, generating cash; and technology people, who want to test forever.

At some point the boss steps in and they have to just put it out there and deal with the issues that come up, and that's what they did.

The same thing happens to me with every project, and I suspect it happens with everyone here. A song is never really finished, but sooner or later you have to stop working on it and move on.

[Babz]

We are the children
We are the ones who bring a brighter day
So let's start testing ...

[Phil O]

groovey

[stubbsonic]

This is a fascinating thread. And I think everyone makes fair points.

There are limits to time, money, and human effort, and what you have to get done before the next Mac OS version comes out!

I wonder what the downsides are to RR's suggestion that MOTU release 9.1 as a public beta or called it some kind of "pre-release preview" or something like that. Such a release could be offered as an update-only option (for previous owners)-- so that no new users would find themselves hating a buggy new version. I also think it would be a good idea to offer the preview (beta) version at a discount during that period. That way, any pain during that period is compensated. Perhaps any losses from the discount would be slightly offset by swinging more late updaters into the early camp. They know their numbers. I'm sure they've thought of it all. Just more musings from my Ignoramus Chair ®.