Pre-Gen MIDI Controller Bug in DP 9.1

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Shooshie
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Pre-Gen MIDI Controller Bug in DP 9.1

Post by Shooshie »

This post could be construed as a continuation of the discussion begun in this thread. The problem turns out to be much more complicated than we suspected. I'm following Babz's testing, but intuition told me it's not merely a Sustain Pedal (CC#64) issue, but one consisting of all continuous controllers. That turned out to be correct. Here I'm using Breath Control (CC #2). It reveals a more widespread problem than others were testing for earlier. The fail key is in the starting conditions.

The problem is that controller data is truncated under certain starting conditions in DP 9.1. When Breath Control is truncated by the bug in DP 9.1, the notes are clipped like a pizzicato effect, which makes it a good test, because it's very obvious when it is failing. It's clear that this is not related to sustain pedals or settings, but is about controllers in general. Since it affects the beginning of any playback, if the conditions are there, it's a very serious bug. I haven't tested yet whether it affects bouncing to disk, but it may well do so since it occurs nearly 100% of the time when the conditions are there, and those conditions may exist at the beginning of disk bounces. We'll explore that later.

The reason this is a difficult bug to figure out is because it involves (at least) FOUR conditions:
• Pre-Existing Data The track contains data, either pre-existing or newly recorded. This never happens in an empty track. It can happen either on playback or when recording OVER data, playing along WITH data, or when overdubbing. There may be more slicing and dicing of this condition, so don't get hung up about it.
• Starting Location (cursor near or within MIDI controller data, vs. a certain distance before it)
• Pre-Gen (On/Off)
• Event Chasing (On/Off)
In addition, when conditions are right to cause truncation of controller data response, the data may intermittently play correctly. It's never a 100% fail situation, as far as I can tell.


When does it play abnormally, and when does it play normally?
  • Starting condition: cursor set near or within the MIDI data.
    • Pre-Gen ON — Event Chasing ON •••• resulting notes are clipped off probably 98% of the time.
    • Pre-Gen ON — Event Chasing OFF •••• resulting notes are clipped off probably 85% of the time.
    • Pre-Gen OFF — Event Chasing ON •••• resulting notes play correctly probably 100% of the time
    • Pre-Gen OFF — Event Chasing OFF •••• resulting notes play correctly probably 100% of the time
  • Starting condition: cursor set some distance before the MIDI data begins.
    • Pre-Gen ON — Event Chasing ON •••• resulting notes play correctly probably 100% of the time
    • Pre-Gen ON — Event Chasing OFF •••• resulting notes play correctly probably 100% of the time
    • Pre-Gen OFF — Event Chasing ON •••• resulting notes play correctly probably 100% of the time
    • Pre-Gen OFF — Event Chasing OFF •••• resulting notes play correctly probably 100% of the time

Pre-Gen is the primary trigger of this malfunction.
Starting Condition is a primary trigger
Event Chasing is involved, but it's a secondary trigger.
Existing Data is required to see any of this occur.

I used auto-rewind set to the beginning of the data to test this, and I had it rewinding to the starting point of the MIDI data or a bar before, depending on the test.

Workarounds: Always leave an empty bar before your starting data. When possible, start playback a certain distance before the data that is critical to hear correctly.

This is a test in-progress. There may be more (or less) to it than I've listed here. I've just got to record what I have and stop for now. Maybe a movie would help; I'll consider that after sleeping.

Shooshie
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toodamnhip
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Re: Pre-Gen MIDI Controller Bug in DP 9.1

Post by toodamnhip »

Nice report brotha.
I am not surprised and suspect many more issues will arise as we all plow through. I think what MOTU is doing here is very adventurous and such endeavors are always full of trial and error. MOTU is basically playing with TIME here. They are attempting to pre render a pAST moment of MIDI/audio, while allowing for a present moment to interject itself in ANY way any user could attempt or need. I can only imagine what’s going on under the hood to allow for these two major streams of activity to SEAMLESSLY switch with each other. And that is where all the problems lie. Making this a SEAMLESS process. Past audio/MIDI and present.
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Shooshie
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Re: Pre-Gen MIDI Controller Bug in DP 9.1

Post by Shooshie »

Some observations (again, don't get hung up on this part. It may or may not be central to the problem):
1) any MIDI controller that starts near the starting point of the cursor will be cut off almost immediately after it starts. In the case of CC#64 (Sustain), you can tap the pedal a couple times and get it to override the truncated pedal info.
2) When starting a MIDI sequence there is a delay after pushing Play which is not commiserate with the buffer setting. For example, at a buffer of 128, I counted over 1 second of delay between pushing start and seeing movement or hearing sound. This seems excessive.

And now, for the really confusing part:
3) The MIDI produced when the controllers are cut off matches the MIDI produced when it plays normally. Here are two sample sets from MIDI Monitor:
  • Pre-Gen turned ON, notes do not play normally but sound "pizzicato:"
    • 320452.850 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Channel Volume (coarse) 127
      320452.850 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Pan (coarse) 64
      320417.488 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 0
      320417.488 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Hold Pedal 0
      320453.886 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 108
      320453.887 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Note On 1 C4 127
      320453.891 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 114
      320453.896 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 116
      320453.902 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 121
      320453.920 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 124
      320453.967 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 122
      320453.979 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 120
      320453.990 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 118
      320454.000 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 116
      320454.005 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 114
      320454.017 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 112
      320454.034 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 110
      320454.041 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Hold Pedal 127
      320454.046 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 107
      320454.057 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 105
      320454.063 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 103
      320454.069 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 100
      320454.075 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 102
      320454.081 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 99
      320454.087 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 97
      320454.099 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 95
      320454.122 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 92
      320454.146 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 90
  • Pre-Gen turned OFF, all notes play correctly:
    • 320563.875 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Channel Volume (coarse) 127
      320563.875 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Pan (coarse) 64
      320454.436 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 0
      320454.436 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Hold Pedal 0
      320564.914 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 108
      320564.915 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Note On 1 C4 127
      320564.919 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 114
      320564.924 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 116
      320564.930 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 121
      320564.948 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 124
      320564.995 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 122
      320565.007 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 120
      320565.018 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 118
      320565.028 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 116
      320565.034 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 114
      320565.045 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 112
      320565.062 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 110
      320565.069 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Hold Pedal 127
      320565.074 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 107
      320565.085 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 105
      320565.091 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 103
      320565.097 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 100
      320565.103 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 102
      320565.109 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 99
      320565.115 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 97
      320565.127 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 95
      320565.150 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 92
      320565.174 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 90
Don't bother reading them; they are identical. Yet two completely different things are happening when they play, because one sample was taken when Pre-Gen was off and the other with Pre-Gen on. The sound is interrupted when Pre-Gen is on, because the breath control is truncated or otherwise caused not to function, and when BC is required to make a sound, a lack of BC means a lack of sound.

How can these MIDI Monitor samples be identical and yet produce differing results in MIDI instruments, both VI and external hardware? The answer is probably in MIDI Monitor. It seems no longer able to track things in DP without using a duplicate track directly assigned to MIDI Monitor as the MIDI output channel. (yes, you can do that) Since this is inter-application MIDI, it's possible that it's handled differently from other direct MIDI channels. I honestly do not know the answer, and it's frustrating to see it. The exact same data is being transmitted to MIDI Monitor both times, and yet an identical duplicate track, assigned to MIDI instruments or VIs, produces different results depending on the starting conditions.

It appears that what happens is not in the MIDI data itself, but how it is being received. I don't have anything else on that right now; I'm just including this very confusing information, because it's there. It may contain clues as to where the breakdown is occurring.

Shoosh
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Re: Pre-Gen MIDI Controller Bug in DP 9.1

Post by Babz »

Wow. Impressive (and methodical), as always, Shooshie.

However, here's a few things...

1. First and foremost: Are you able to reproduce the sustain pedal thing?

2. I just did some more testing, with these results ...

3. Record some on and off sustain pedal into a track. Place the wiper after that point and simply PLAY (not record). No issue. I can only get it happen if I am RECORDING.

4. I did the same test with pitch bend, and with modulation, and could NOT get it to happen. So far, this issue seems to be limited to cc64 (and recording), in my tests.

5. Since I can get the issue when testing with an external hardware synth, doesn't that suggest that pre-gen is not involved? Pre-gen is only about software plugins, right?

6. Since hardly anyone uses breath control, can you give us a way to produce your issue that involves some other controller?

Best,
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Shooshie
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Re: Pre-Gen MIDI Controller Bug in DP 9.1

Post by Shooshie »

Ok, if the previous post wasn't confusing enough, here is another 2 sets of data, and this time one of them is way different. After the first few events which are different, the rest of the list is identical to the other sample. But those initial MIDI events that are different... where did they come from? They're not in the MIDI track. Could these be stuck in Pre-Gen or Event Chasing from the end of a previous pass which did not get fully deleted from its holder? Could that be a clue?
  • Pre-Gen turned ON, notes do not play normally but sound "pizzicato:"
    • 323040.900 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Channel Volume (coarse) 127
      323040.900 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Pan (coarse) 64
      322856.066 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 0
      322856.066 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Hold Pedal 0
      323041.938 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 108
      323041.939 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Note On 1 C4 127
      323041.943 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 114
      323041.949 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 116
      323041.955 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 121
      323041.972 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 124
      323042.019 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 122
      323042.031 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 120
      323042.042 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 118
      323042.052 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 116
      323042.058 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 114
      323042.069 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 112
      323042.086 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 110
      323042.094 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Hold Pedal 127
      323042.098 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 107
      323042.110 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 105
      323042.116 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 103
      323042.121 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 100
      323042.127 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 102
      323042.133 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 99
      323042.139 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 97
      323042.151 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 95
      323042.175 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 92
      323042.198 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 90
  • Pre-Gen turned off, all notes play correctly:
    • 322850.917 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Channel Volume (coarse) 127
      322850.917 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Pan (coarse) 64
      322850.917 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Hold Pedal 127
      322850.923 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Note On 1 G4 76
      322850.966 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Note Off 1 G4 64
      322850.966 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Hold Pedal 0

      322854.007 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Channel Volume (coarse) 127
      322854.007 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Pan (coarse) 64
      322845.479 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 0
      322845.479 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Hold Pedal 0
      322855.029 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 108
      322855.030 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Note On 1 C4 127
      322855.034 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 114
      322855.040 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 116
      322855.046 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 121
      322855.064 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 124
      322855.111 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 122
      322855.122 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 120
      322855.133 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 118
      322855.144 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 116
      322855.149 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 114
      322855.160 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 112
      322855.177 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 110
      322855.185 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Hold Pedal 127
      322855.189 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 107
      322855.201 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 105
      322855.207 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 103
      322855.213 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 100
      322855.219 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 102
      322855.225 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 99
      322855.230 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 97
      322855.242 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 95
      322855.266 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 92
      322855.290 To MIDI Monitor (Untitled) Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 90
One other strange occurrence: Often when I turn on Pre Gen, it turns itself back off when I play the sequence. I checked it carefully, multiple times, and still it managed to do that. Intermittent; it only happens occasionally, but when it happens it can persist for quite some time before it finally does what I told it to.

I'd really like to know what the heck is going on with this bug.

Shooshie
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Re: Pre-Gen MIDI Controller Bug in DP 9.1

Post by Shooshie »

Babz wrote:Wow. Impressive (and methodical), as always, Shooshie.

However, here's a few things...

1. First and foremost: Are you able to reproduce the sustain pedal thing?
Yes. I started with that, and consistently reproduced it.
2. I just did some more testing, with these results ...

3. Record some on and off sustain pedal into a track. Place the wiper after that point and simply PLAY (not record). No issue. I can only get it happen if I am RECORDING.

4. I did the same test with pitch bend, and with modulation, and could NOT get it to happen. So far, this issue seems to be limited to cc64 (and recording), in my tests.
It's not limited to CC64. I think it's all Control Change data. Maybe if you are careful to duplicate my starting conditions, listed in the first post.
5. Since I can get the issue when testing with an external hardware synth, doesn't that suggest that pre-gen is not involved? Pre-gen is only about software plugins, right?
That was certainly the rule before DP 9.1, but I don't know if it still is. Maybe that's where the programmer messed up!
6. Since hardly anyone uses breath control, can you give us a way to produce your issue that involves some other controller?
Any fader can be assigned to BC or Expression (CC11) to test it. Or use a knob. You don't need but a bar or two, maybe 2 notes in a pattern, repeated, so you have those at the beginning of the sample and two more that begin working after the first two fail. For that matter, you could draw it in. Most VIs respond to Expression. Maybe try that instead of BC.

By the way, to be sure this was not in any way biased by previous conditions, I started this file from scratch, creating and assigning every track. No templates or existing chunks were involved. Also, I reinstalled the VIs that I'm using. (The problems persist with the Cello from Sample Modeling, but it's the only one that has those particular problems, unrelated to this thread)
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Re: Pre-Gen MIDI Controller Bug in DP 9.1

Post by charnach »

There are a lot of references here to Pre-gen. My understanding was that Pre-gen related to the rendering of non-record enabled VI tracks.

I started a new empty sequence with no VIs, and with a single MIDI track routed to an external synth and I still have the problem.

I was also unable to reproduce the problem with any of these controllers: Pitch Bend, Volume #11, or Modulation. I don’t have a breath controller (although I wish I did).

Again, for me at least, the off/on status of event chasing has no effect on the problem.
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Re: Pre-Gen MIDI Controller Bug in DP 9.1

Post by David Polich »

There IS a workaround...old-school of course.

Simply record your part from beginning to end, don't punch in, don't stop recording and then start
again. Pretend you're playing live and have to get the part right. If this is truly a bug MOTU will get to it.

Just sayin'...
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Re: Pre-Gen MIDI Controller Bug in DP 9.1

Post by jacey714 »

Has anyone tried this using an external synth using MIDI ONLY mode?

J
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Re: Pre-Gen MIDI Controller Bug in DP 9.1

Post by Shooshie »

David Polich wrote:There IS a workaround...old-school of course.

Simply record your part from beginning to end, don't punch in, don't stop recording and then start
again. Pretend you're playing live and have to get the part right. If this is truly a bug MOTU will get to it.

Just sayin'...
Amusing, David; amusing.

Shoosh
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Re: Pre-Gen MIDI Controller Bug in DP 9.1

Post by Babz »

jacey714 wrote:Has anyone tried this using an external synth using MIDI ONLY mode?

J

Yes, I have been able to reproduce the sustain pedal bug with both an external synth (Roland keyboard) and with a VI (Kontakt).

[Update: Somehow I missed the part about "MIDI ONLY mode", even though you put it in CAPS -- D'oh! :oops: No, I haven't tried that. I have gone from being a smug and self-satisfied "I can't reproduce it" skeptic, to figuring out certain key details to produce the issue, to working with MOTU to get them to confirm and reproduce the bug, all in less than a day. This has been a hectic and tedious 24 hours. I apologize if I have sometimes not been as careful as I would like with all my comments. :mrgreen: ]
Last edited by Babz on Tue Aug 02, 2016 10:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pre-Gen MIDI Controller Bug in DP 9.1

Post by David Polich »

Well it's how I record all my keyboard parts - from beginning to end, one shot. If I do it another
way, I lose the feel.

I learned this from my mentor, known here on this forum as Waxman. It's about groove and vibe.
Not bar lines, controllers, or punching in and out.

So if you want to call me old-fashioned or out-of-touch, or even amusing, that's alright with me. :)
2019 Mac Pro 8-core, 32GB RAM, Mac OS Ventura, MIDI Express 128, Apogee Duet 3, DP 11.2x, Waves, Slate , Izotope, UAD, Amplitube 5, Tonex, Spectrasonics, Native Instruments, Pianoteq, Soniccouture, Arturia, Amplesound, Acustica, Reason Objekt, Plasmonic, Vital, Cherry Audio, Toontrack, BFD, Yamaha Motif XF6, Yamaha Montage M6, Korg Kronos X61, Alesis Ion,Sequential Prophet 6, Sequential OB-6, Hammond XK5, Yamaha Disklavier MK 3 piano.
http://www.davepolich.com
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Babz
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Re: Pre-Gen MIDI Controller Bug in DP 9.1

Post by Babz »

BREAKING NEWS...

I just got off the phone with MOTU tech support (talking them through how to reproduce the sustain pedal bug*) and they were able to reproduce it and confirm it as a genuine bug.

So they know about it and are working on a fix!

Bazinga!

Babz

[*This was just cc64, Shooshie, but I did mention to them that other controllers could be involved, and breath control specifically, and told them to check the Motunation board for your posts on this, so I'm sure they will be looking into that too!]
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Phil O
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Re: Pre-Gen MIDI Controller Bug in DP 9.1

Post by Phil O »

Babz and Shooshie. Thanks so much for this incredibly detailed discussion. A bit over my head, but I learned a lot reading trough it.

Phil
DP 11.23, 2020 M1 Mac Mini [9,1] (16 Gig RAM), Mac Pro 3GHz 8 core [6,1] (16 Gig RAM), OS 14.3.1/11.6.2, Lynx Aurora (n) 8tb, MOTU 8pre-es, MOTU M6, MOTU 828, Apogee Rosetta 800, UAD-2 Satellite, a truckload of outboard gear and plug-ins, and a partridge in a pear tree.
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Babz
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Re: Pre-Gen MIDI Controller Bug in DP 9.1

Post by Babz »

David Polich wrote:There IS a workaround...old-school of course.

Simply record your part from beginning to end, don't punch in, don't stop recording and then start
again. Pretend you're playing live and have to get the part right. If this is truly a bug MOTU will get to it.

Just sayin'...
So essentially, tape. Yes, I can do that with guitar and maybe some other instruments, and did it for years, but am not a good enough keyboard player, alas.

But kidding aside, there is much to be said for the forge ahead technique, just in terms of, as you say "feel," and such. It's been so long since I've cut live to tape like that, I really should give it a try more often.

Unfortunately, acc. to my tests, you can't even use punch in record and do a quick sustain pedal on/off before your punch in point. You have to actually RECORD a pedal on/off into the MIDI track to unlock the cc64 off.

This may enough of a deal-breaker for me to return to 9.02.

Best,
Babz
Last edited by Babz on Tue Aug 02, 2016 10:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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