This definitely needs to be fixed. Major DP shortcoming...

[HCMarkus]

As mentioned by others, I generally comp first, edit later., so haven't run up against this very often. But I feel your pain, especially if you are dealing with a track that isn't cut to a click.

[Shooshie]

Again, the short term workaround (or long-term, if we can't convince MOTU of the error of their design) is to Show Tracks in the Takes Menu. Then your snips and pokes and jabs will operate on everything selected.

[EDIT: THIS WORKS ONLY IN THE TRACKS WINDOW AT PRESENT TIME. IN THE SEQUENCE EDITOR THE TAKE TRACKS DO NOT MOVE TOGETHER WITH THE COMP TRACK.]

Shoosh

[Robert Randolph]

Again, the short term workaround (or long-term, if we can't convince MOTU of the error of their design) is to Show Tracks in the Takes Menu. Then your snips and pokes and jabs will operate on everything selected.

Shoosh

This doesn't work for me.

Are you saying that it allows you to move all takes + the master track?

[Shooshie]

Again, the short term workaround (or long-term, if we can't convince MOTU of the error of their design) is to Show Tracks in the Takes Menu. Then your snips and pokes and jabs will operate on everything selected.

Shoosh

This doesn't work for me.

Are you saying that it allows you to move all takes + the master track?

Yes. You probably have to do it as a group. AND... you must make sure that the tracks are selected to their very end if you move entire tracks. Some takes were longer than others, and I didn't select the whole things the first time I tried it. I was just selecting to the end of the Comp track. Takes that extended beyond that didn't move until I selected the whole things.

Also, I just tried a few moves. I didn't do complicated surgery. Maybe there's something keeping you from doing more than a few moves. I'll look into that later.

Shoosh

[EMRR]

I was dealing with some of this pain last week, singer who changed some musical arrangements after tracking lots of vocal takes. Exploding takes to tracks and then reducing has worked, but what a pain. The biggest YIKES is the thought of movement destroying existing comps (so merge a comp copy first). Comp behavior sometimes seems erratic as-is anyway.

My personal gripe of late has been discovering an accidental keystroke that clears the tempo data so there's just a cursor waiting for a new entry. Really hard to see, and makes it look like DP has frozen. Accidentally enter another number and all my edits explode with soundbites moving elsewhere. Now for me, since I don't work to any sort of grid, no MIDI, rarely paying attention to the tempo entry, if it's not documented, then it's guesswork to find what tempo was entered. Then you get to redo all the crossfades. I'd surely love to have tempo unrelated to time and soundbite position as a preference, maybe it can be and I haven't found it. Clearly it would make most of you guys lose your minds to do so, and I know why you want it to be as it is. If I'm running a reference click while tracking, I have to print it to a track and put it in an edit group so any musical edits that don't stay fully with the click generate a new click reference that displays the timing 'errors'.

[Shooshie]

I was dealing with some of this pain last week, singer who changed some musical arrangements after tracking lots of vocal takes. Exploding takes to tracks and then reducing has worked, but what a pain. The biggest YIKES is the thought of movement destroying existing comps (so merge a comp copy first). Comp behavior sometimes seems erratic as-is anyway.

My personal gripe of late has been discovering an accidental keystroke that clears the tempo data so there's just a cursor waiting for a new entry. Really hard to see, and makes it look like DP has frozen. Accidentally enter another number and all my edits explode with soundbites moving elsewhere. Now for me, since I don't work to any sort of grid, no MIDI, rarely paying attention to the tempo entry, if it's not documented, then it's guesswork to find what tempo was entered. Then you get to redo all the crossfades. I'd surely love to have tempo unrelated to time and soundbite position as a preference, maybe it can be and I haven't found it. Clearly it would make most of you guys lose your minds to do so, and I know why you want it to be as it is. If I'm running a reference click while tracking, I have to print it to a track and put it in an edit group so any musical edits that don't stay fully with the click generate a new click reference that displays the timing 'errors'.

Fixes, in order of preference:

• • UNDO. Open Undo history and go back to the last point that the edits were still intact.
  • Revert to last version saved
  • Revert to an autosaved backup
  • Close file without saving, reopen last saved version

Depending on how much work you lose by doing the 2nd one vs. the 3rd one, those may be reversed.

Do you happen to know the keystroke that creates that problem? I don't, but I'd sure like to disarm it by erasing the command in the Commands Window if that's possible. We need a list of potential hazards like this, and the best ways to protect yourself from them and/or fix the damage.

Shooshie

[Shooshie]

I'd surely love to have tempo unrelated to time and soundbite position as a preference, maybe it can be and I haven't found it. Clearly it would make most of you guys lose your minds to do so, and I know why you want it to be as it is. If I'm running a reference click while tracking, I have to print it to a track and put it in an edit group so any musical edits that don't stay fully with the click generate a new click reference that displays the timing 'errors'.

Lock your tracks to prevent any tempo-related change in the soundbite locations. Personally, I've never experienced the problems you're referencing. When not using the conductor track, I leave the metronome at default, which is 120 bpm. Easily reset if you mess up the tempo.

As for your manually recorded click-tracks, why not use DP's features which are designed to do all that for you? It sounds like you're taking steps to avoid having to use it. Maybe you used it in the past and something went wrong, so you're afraid to try it now. If you're comfortable with this way of working, then there's certainly nothing wrong with it, but you may find that you get the same results, much faster and easier, by going with DP's actual designed methodology.

Or not. I'm sure you have your reasons.

Shoosh

[MIDI Life Crisis]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hundredth_monkey_effect

[Robert Randolph]

Again, the short term workaround (or long-term, if we can't convince MOTU of the error of their design) is to Show Tracks in the Takes Menu. Then your snips and pokes and jabs will operate on everything selected.

Shoosh

This doesn't work for me.

Are you saying that it allows you to move all takes + the master track?

Yes. You probably have to do it as a group. AND... you must make sure that the tracks are selected to their very end if you move entire tracks. Some takes were longer than others, and I didn't select the whole things the first time I tried it. I was just selecting to the end of the Comp track. Takes that extended beyond that didn't move until I selected the whole things.

Also, I just tried a few moves. I didn't do complicated surgery. Maybe there's something keeping you from doing more than a few moves. I'll look into that later.

Shoosh

In this gif I have everything selected. The second time I move stuff, its with a group enabled that has all the takes and tracks in the group too.

If I have comps/splits, then all hell breaks loose like the image I posted earlier.

Am I missing something here?

[Shooshie]

Pardon the distraction, but what did you use to make the animated gif? That might facilitate more animated examples from me, if I could make a quick-n-dirty gif of the action, rather than trying to describe it.

Meanwhile, I'm booting DP to see if I can get that action to fail here. I'll let you know what happens.

Shoosh

[HCMarkus]

My personal gripe of late has been discovering an accidental keystroke that clears the tempo data so there's just a cursor waiting for a new entry.

To avoid inadvertent tempo changes, set up your template with tempo controlled by the conductor track.

[frankf]

As far as moving tracks in and out of folders and moving folders around you should check out the folder commands in the Commands window. I'm able to accomplish these tasks very quickly. There could always be more!

Is there a way to move a group of tracks to a folder that doesn't require moving a single track, then using the 'move selected tracks to be together'? I also can't find any 'folder commands' in the commands window. Could you please elaborate?

Such as if I wanted to move Audio1-7 to 'New Folder'. How do you do that?



Or in this gif, how do I get Audio 5 in to Folder 2? I can't seem to do it in 1 step.



Or how did I manage this? How do I undo it?! (note that Audio 6 isn't in any folder, but it's in a sub-folder hierarchy!)



We can even make it weirder! Non-folder tracks inside folders with the hierarchy all backwards. It's anyone's guess what happens if you hit undo.



So surely if we close the folder, re-open it and maybe undo, then everything makes sense? Of course not! Tracks start going everywhere!

That quick track arrangement at the end is me hitting undo once. It moves the tracks twice, and the final result isn't anything like what we started with or intended. The gif doesn't catch it very well though.

Note that Audio 2 jumps out of the folder and audio 3 moves to a different folder!




Track folders have never worked correctly for me. I could go on really...

Anyway, take/comps and moving is also very broken. Back to your regularly scheduled ranting.

I'm reading this in Tapatalk on my iPhone.
I'm going to have to wait until I get to my Mac to respond because the gifs are tiny and move too fast for me to see what's going on.

[Shooshie]

In this gif I have everything selected. The second time I move stuff, its with a group enabled that has all the takes and tracks in the group too.

If I have comps/splits, then all hell breaks loose like the image I posted earlier.

Am I missing something here?

Ok, as regards moving takes together, I'm seeing the same thing you're seeing IN THE SEQUENCE EDITOR.

The reason my experiment was successful yesterday was because I was doing it in the Tracks Window. It was just easier to select that many tracks in the Tracks window rather than scrolling around in the Sequence Editor. When I do it in the Sequence Editor, I see the same thing as is happening in your animated Gif. I don't know why there would be a discrepancy in the way they move tracks and takes, but unless MOTU has a reason for it, this is troubling in itself.

Maybe the better method is to Turn Takes Into Tracks, as we used to do before take comping became a feature. Then you "absorb selected tracks" to go back to takes again. I never liked doing it this way, and I've protested before about it, but it never was changed, so I guess MOTU disagreed with me. I think we will have to band together on this one. Maybe it would help, first of all, if we get our story straight and present a consistent description of the problem/solution.

Basically, as I see it, we want the ability to include all takes in all edits, if desired. There should be a flag or box we click to make all takes behave as one in an edit. It could be in preferences, or it could be at the top of the edit windows. It needs to be fairly conspicuous, so that you don't have to "know the secret" to make it work. I think the default should be to move all takes as one, but since it's never been that way before, and since MOTU likes to promote continuity in its interface, I can see letting the default continue to be to keep them separate, but to edit takes together on command.

There, that's our menu-item in the Takes Menu: "Edit Takes Together." Similar to "Edge Edit Copy" in that one little obscure menu item makes a world of difference in your work.

Shooshie

[Robert Randolph]

Ok, as regards moving takes together, I'm seeing the same thing you're seeing.

The reason my experiment was successful yesterday was because I was doing it in the Tracks Window. It was just easier to select that many tracks in the Tracks window rather than scrolling around in the Sequence Editor. When I do it in the Sequence Editor, I see the same thing as is happening in your animated Gif. I don't know why there would be a discrepancy in the way they move tracks and takes, but unless MOTU has a reason for it, this is troubling in itself.

Maybe the better method is to Turn Takes Into Tracks, as we used to do before take comping became a feature. Then you "absorb selected tracks" to go back to takes again. I never liked doing it this way, and I've protested before about it, but it never was changed, so I guess MOTU disagreed with me. I think we will have to band together on this one. Maybe it would help, first of all, if we get our story straight and present a consistent description of the problem/solution.

Basically, as I see it, we want the ability to include all takes in all edits, if desired. There should be a flag or box we click to make all takes behave as one in an edit. It could be in preferences, or it could be at the top of the edit windows. It needs to be fairly conspicuous, so that you don't have to "know the secret" to make it work. I think the default should be to move all takes as one, but since it's never been that way before, and since MOTU likes to promote continuity in its interface, I can see letting the default continue to be to keep them separate, but to edit takes together on command.

There, that's our menu-item in the Takes Menu: "Edit Takes Together." Similar to "Edge Edit Copy" in that one little obscure menu item makes a world of difference in your work.

Shooshie

What if there was a 'lock takes' button on the track? That would disallow comping and lock all takes to the track. Then all splits/comps/takes are moved along as necessary and there's no weirdness that can occur?

If you want to comp, you want stuff to be free to move so unlocking makes sense.

If you want to move stuff around, you want everything locked together... so lock it.

How's that sound? Similar to a menu item, but perhaps more intuitive. (I hate that edge edit copy menu. It still gets me even after so many years!)

[Robert Randolph]

Pardon the distraction, but what did you use to make the animated gif? That might facilitate more animated examples from me, if I could make a quick-n-dirty gif of the action, rather than trying to describe it.

Meanwhile, I'm booting DP to see if I can get that action to fail here. I'll let you know what happens.

Shoosh

Program called Licecap, made by the evil, awful people that made that other DAW that's censored here.