UNofficial Digital Performer Community bug list discussion

For seeking technical help with Digital Performer and/or plug-ins on MacOS.

Moderator: James Steele

Forum rules
This forum is for seeking solutions to technical problems involving Digital Performer and/or plug-ins on MacOS, as well as feature requests, criticisms, comparison to other DAWs.
Post Reply
User avatar
Robert Randolph
Posts: 877
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:50 am
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: St. Petersburg, Florida

UNofficial Digital Performer Community bug list discussion

Post by Robert Randolph »

This thread exists for discussing bugs listed in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=61937

Please put the reference number in the subject of your post.

If there is no specific bug that you are referring to, then please list 'General' in your post's subject.
User avatar
Shooshie
Posts: 19820
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Dallas
Contact:

Re: UNofficial Digital Performer Community bug list discussi

Post by Shooshie »

In this report: The Search Field Glitch, I have introduced a curve-ball early on. My hope is that this will show that the requirements can be adhered to closely, but where the stated outline doesn't fit exactly we can still make it work. This is one of the "gray area" bugs which is important to document here, because it can be disruptive to our workflow, even after you know and understand it. Technically, it's not a coding bug. It's working as someone wrote it. It's just that the person who wrote it didn't think through what would happen if someone hit the TAB key with the track selector closed. A few people have reported this in the forum, but few responded, because most did not understand their descriptions.

The first time it happened to me, I thought some terrible glitch had occurred. I was ready to go back to DP8. Then I figure it out. But even now, if my track selector is closed, and I hit TAB, then type something, my tracks disappear and it takes me a bit of time to get it all straightened out again. There's no easy key to hit to fix it.

So, sorry for throwing you a curve ball right off the bat, but we might as well figure out now how much we cab bend this before it breaks, because — as I discovered when I did a spreadsheet of people's systems and problems 10 years ago — not all the bugs are going to fit the exact form you've given us, but the more we try to make it fit, the better it will be for all.

Shooshie
|l| OS X 10.12.6 |l| DP 10.0 |l| 2.4 GHz 12-Core MacPro Mid-2012 |l| 40GB RAM |l| Mach5.3 |l| Waves 9.x |l| Altiverb |l| Ivory 2 New York Steinway |l| Wallander WIVI 2.30 Winds, Brass, Saxes |l| Garritan Aria |l| VSL 5.3.1 and VSL Pro 2.3.1 |l| Yamaha WX-5 MIDI Wind Controller |l| Roland FC-300 |l|
User avatar
Robert Randolph
Posts: 877
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:50 am
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: St. Petersburg, Florida

Re: UNofficial Digital Performer Community bug list discussi

Post by Robert Randolph »

So far, I think this is definitely a coding bug... When I get around to trying it myself I'll see if I change my opinion.

For now, it's listed as [Verification In Progress]
User avatar
Phil O
Posts: 7231
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Scituate, MA

Re: UNofficial Digital Performer Community bug list discussi

Post by Phil O »

Shooshie wrote:But even now, if my track selector is closed, and I hit TAB, then type something, my tracks disappear and it takes me a bit of time to get it all straightened out again. There's no easy key to hit to fix it.
Try hitting Tab (again) then Delete. Works for me.

Phil
DP 11.23, 2020 M1 Mac Mini [9,1] (16 Gig RAM), Mac Pro 3GHz 8 core [6,1] (16 Gig RAM), OS 14.3.1/11.6.2, Lynx Aurora (n) 8tb, MOTU 8pre-es, MOTU M6, MOTU 828, Apogee Rosetta 800, UAD-2 Satellite, a truckload of outboard gear and plug-ins, and a partridge in a pear tree.
User avatar
Shooshie
Posts: 19820
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Dallas
Contact:

Re: UNofficial Digital Performer Community bug list discussi

Post by Shooshie »

Phil O wrote:
Shooshie wrote:But even now, if my track selector is closed, and I hit TAB, then type something, my tracks disappear and it takes me a bit of time to get it all straightened out again. There's no easy key to hit to fix it.
Try hitting Tab (again) then Delete. Works for me.

Phil
Yeah, but then you have to click out of it, or it just happens again. This is a design bug: design that's poorly thought out and leads to work slowdowns. For someone who doesn't know what's going on, this could lead to them taking drastic actions, thinking their file is already ruined, thus being a self-fulfilling bug!

Shoosh
|l| OS X 10.12.6 |l| DP 10.0 |l| 2.4 GHz 12-Core MacPro Mid-2012 |l| 40GB RAM |l| Mach5.3 |l| Waves 9.x |l| Altiverb |l| Ivory 2 New York Steinway |l| Wallander WIVI 2.30 Winds, Brass, Saxes |l| Garritan Aria |l| VSL 5.3.1 and VSL Pro 2.3.1 |l| Yamaha WX-5 MIDI Wind Controller |l| Roland FC-300 |l|
User avatar
Robert Randolph
Posts: 877
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:50 am
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: St. Petersburg, Florida

Re: UNofficial Digital Performer Community bug list discussi

Post by Robert Randolph »

Shooshie wrote:
Phil O wrote:
Shooshie wrote:But even now, if my track selector is closed, and I hit TAB, then type something, my tracks disappear and it takes me a bit of time to get it all straightened out again. There's no easy key to hit to fix it.
Try hitting Tab (again) then Delete. Works for me.

Phil
Yeah, but then you have to click out of it, or it just happens again. This is a design bug: design that's poorly thought out and leads to work slowdowns. For someone who doesn't know what's going on, this could lead to them taking drastic actions, thinking their file is already ruined, thus being a self-fulfilling bug!

Shoosh
I've tried this and I definitely think it falls in to the categorization of a bug.

Input is being directed incorrectly and then accepted without the user's explicit intent.

What I'm really curious about is if this exists in older versions of DP. Can anyone check?
User avatar
Shooshie
Posts: 19820
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Dallas
Contact:

Re: UNofficial Digital Performer Community bug list discussi

Post by Shooshie »

Robert Randolph wrote: I've tried this and I definitely think it falls in to the categorization of a bug.

Input is being directed incorrectly and then accepted without the user's explicit intent.

What I'm really curious about is if this exists in older versions of DP. Can anyone check?
No, this is DP9-only. This is a recently added feature.

It can be called a bug, because it creates havoc without one knowing why or where it's happening. While the work-around is easy, until you figure that out, it's a frightening thing. It seems to be failing and crashing. It needs to be fixed.

It's ironic that they created this at the very same time that they finally fixed the View Filter bug, which was a similar bug: not coding error, but poor design that caused users extreme anguish until they learned what had happened.

The first time this Search Field bug happened to me, I ended up quitting and restarting DP to get it to come back. It took a couple times before I figured out what was happening. I'm holding firm on this one: it's a design bug, and it needs to be fixed. They at least need to make entry to the field a deliberate action, not an accidental tap of the TAB key by default. This is the sort of thing that causes a bad reputation, makes the user interface seem awkward and poorly thought-out.

Shooshie
|l| OS X 10.12.6 |l| DP 10.0 |l| 2.4 GHz 12-Core MacPro Mid-2012 |l| 40GB RAM |l| Mach5.3 |l| Waves 9.x |l| Altiverb |l| Ivory 2 New York Steinway |l| Wallander WIVI 2.30 Winds, Brass, Saxes |l| Garritan Aria |l| VSL 5.3.1 and VSL Pro 2.3.1 |l| Yamaha WX-5 MIDI Wind Controller |l| Roland FC-300 |l|
User avatar
Robert Randolph
Posts: 877
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:50 am
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: St. Petersburg, Florida

Re: UNofficial Digital Performer Community bug list discussi

Post by Robert Randolph »

Shooshie wrote:
Robert Randolph wrote: I've tried this and I definitely think it falls in to the categorization of a bug.

Input is being directed incorrectly and then accepted without the user's explicit intent.

What I'm really curious about is if this exists in older versions of DP. Can anyone check?
No, this is DP9-only. This is a recently added feature.

It can be called a bug, because it creates havoc without one knowing why or where it's happening. While the work-around is easy, until you figure that out, it's a frightening thing. It seems to be failing and crashing. It needs to be fixed.

It's ironic that they created this at the very same time that they finally fixed the View Filter bug, which was a similar bug: not coding error, but poor design that caused users extreme anguish until they learned what had happened.

The first time this Search Field bug happened to me, I ended up quitting and restarting DP to get it to come back. It took a couple times before I figured out what was happening. I'm holding firm on this one: it's a design bug, and it needs to be fixed. They at least need to make entry to the field a deliberate action, not an accidental tap of the TAB key by default. This is the sort of thing that causes a bad reputation, makes the user interface seem awkward and poorly thought-out.

Shooshie
I haven't updated the status on this one because you've damn near convinced me that, according to the laid out specifications, it should be rejected.

So I'll ask, do you have a better bug specification class that would cover this instance, and not cover some other non-bug behaviours?
User avatar
MIDI Life Crisis
Posts: 26254
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Contact:

Re: UNofficial Digital Performer Community bug list discussi

Post by MIDI Life Crisis »

And that's the thing about reporting "bugs." Sometimes it's the OS and not the program. If Apple changes a previously functioning routine and it breaks something in a specific app, with its own specific routines, should it be reported as a bug attributable to MOTU. If it appears on this site in the "bugs only please" thread then it will certainly *appear* to be a MOTU bug to others reading that.

I don't envy you the task you've taken on here. Remember Sisyphus
2013 Mac Pro 32GB RAM

OSX 10.14.6; DP 10; Track 16; Finale 26, iPad Pro, et al

MIDI LIFE CRISIS
User avatar
stubbsonic
Posts: 4600
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 12:56 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Contact:

Re: UNofficial Digital Performer Community bug list discussi

Post by stubbsonic »

I think an incompatibility with the current OS is still a "bug" and we can't really control where people will direct their "blame stream".

I'm so grateful for RR's work thus far. It is a great resource for users-- which is the point. If users know what's up, they can adjust their workflow, and they can make an informed decision before upgrading/updating.
M1 MBP; OS 12, FF800, DP 11.3, Kontakt 7, Reaktor 6, PC3K7, K2661S, iPad6, Godin XTSA, Two Ibanez 5 string basses (1 fretted, 1 fretless), FM3, SY-1000, etc.

http://www.jonstubbsmusic.com
User avatar
Phil O
Posts: 7231
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Scituate, MA

Re: UNofficial Digital Performer Community bug list discussi

Post by Phil O »

[edit] Ignore this post, I was in error. Sorry.

Phil
Last edited by Phil O on Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:17 pm, edited 5 times in total.
DP 11.23, 2020 M1 Mac Mini [9,1] (16 Gig RAM), Mac Pro 3GHz 8 core [6,1] (16 Gig RAM), OS 14.3.1/11.6.2, Lynx Aurora (n) 8tb, MOTU 8pre-es, MOTU M6, MOTU 828, Apogee Rosetta 800, UAD-2 Satellite, a truckload of outboard gear and plug-ins, and a partridge in a pear tree.
User avatar
Robert Randolph
Posts: 877
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:50 am
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: St. Petersburg, Florida

Re: UNofficial Digital Performer Community bug list discussi

Post by Robert Randolph »

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:And that's the thing about reporting "bugs." Sometimes it's the OS and not the program. If Apple changes a previously functioning routine and it breaks something in a specific app, with its own specific routines, should it be reported as a bug attributable to MOTU. If it appears on this site in the "bugs only please" thread then it will certainly *appear* to be a MOTU bug to others reading that.

I don't envy you the task you've taken on here. Remember Sisyphus
In this instance, it would entirely be Motu's fault. Why?

Directly from the DP Specifications page:
Operating systems

Mac OS X version 10.6.8 or later

Windows 7 (32- and 64-bit)
Windows 8 (32- and 64-bit)
Windows 10
Unless or until otherwise noted, the expectation should be that DP works in any new version of OS X, Windows 7, 8 or 10.

Other DAWs have certifications in place, or explicitly disallow installation on a new OS until it's been tested. If Motu want's to exclude explicit compatibility from new OS upgrades then they should either do so explicitly or say so explicitly.

Till then, we have it written exactly what DP should support.
User avatar
Shooshie
Posts: 19820
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Dallas
Contact:

Re: UNofficial Digital Performer Community bug list discussi

Post by Shooshie »

Robert Randolph wrote:I haven't updated the status on this one because you've damn near convinced me that, according to the laid out specifications, it should be rejected.

So I'll ask, do you have a better bug specification class that would cover this instance, and not cover some other non-bug behaviours?
Maybe "Accidental Workflow Disruptors."
You've actually got a bug report that may also fit that description:
viewtopic.php?p=527175#p527175

I'm not saying I don't think it belongs (it's a valid report that MOTU should consider), but it's a little like mine in that it's not a coding error. The difference is that the "bug" I reported actually creates havoc that can have disastrous results if the user gets frustrated and does something drastic before realizing what's happening. I posted that one purposely to demonstrate that some of these are going to fall into this gray area, and that we must figure out how to accommodate them while not opening the door to spurious "user bugs" that are really a user's preference for it to work another way.

In the case of the disappearing tracks, I can't imagine any user actually wanting it to work that way when it would be easy to design it to have all current functionality, but none of the surprises. I think we're in agreement that there are bugs that need attention, and yet they don't fit the strict definition of "bug," so what we're really looking for here is a label.

Consider:
  • Accidental Workflow Disruptor
  • Unintentional Workflow Disruptor
  • Mistakes By Design
  • Errors by Design
Shoosh
|l| OS X 10.12.6 |l| DP 10.0 |l| 2.4 GHz 12-Core MacPro Mid-2012 |l| 40GB RAM |l| Mach5.3 |l| Waves 9.x |l| Altiverb |l| Ivory 2 New York Steinway |l| Wallander WIVI 2.30 Winds, Brass, Saxes |l| Garritan Aria |l| VSL 5.3.1 and VSL Pro 2.3.1 |l| Yamaha WX-5 MIDI Wind Controller |l| Roland FC-300 |l|
User avatar
MIDI Life Crisis
Posts: 26254
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Contact:

Re: UNofficial Digital Performer Community bug list discussi

Post by MIDI Life Crisis »

So here's one... I hit command-f and the View Filter shows up. I dismiss it with a click of the bottom right button (the usual place to find a dismiss or OK button) and all my data disappears!

We've seen dozens of posts from both new and experienced users getting bit by this fun Easter Egg MOTU has left for us. No, it's not really an Easter Egg, but an extremely poor choice that can and has cost people headaches and, in my case, money as I had to cancel a session where people drove 180 miles to come to my studio to record.

For me, using the OS command for "find" as a way of calling up the view filter is as bad as any code that'll crash my software. Maybe worse! And it if it is not intentional, then I'd call that a "bug." AKA - a standard OS keystroke that results in unexpected behavior when applied in the app. OK, it's just bad programming (or bad humor) but that is a bug and MOTU must face.
2013 Mac Pro 32GB RAM

OSX 10.14.6; DP 10; Track 16; Finale 26, iPad Pro, et al

MIDI LIFE CRISIS
User avatar
Shooshie
Posts: 19820
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Dallas
Contact:

Re: UNofficial Digital Performer Community bug list discussi

Post by Shooshie »

Hear! Hear!
|l| OS X 10.12.6 |l| DP 10.0 |l| 2.4 GHz 12-Core MacPro Mid-2012 |l| 40GB RAM |l| Mach5.3 |l| Waves 9.x |l| Altiverb |l| Ivory 2 New York Steinway |l| Wallander WIVI 2.30 Winds, Brass, Saxes |l| Garritan Aria |l| VSL 5.3.1 and VSL Pro 2.3.1 |l| Yamaha WX-5 MIDI Wind Controller |l| Roland FC-300 |l|
Post Reply