Community bug list, ya/nay?

[toodamnhip]

Maybe we could start off by just accepting what Robert has planned and move on, ok guys? I don't think we'll ever find another plan that silences all critics, so let's just call this done.

Shooshie

Yes, please. It's more than good enough to get started.

I agree that we should accept this plan, but I think it is good that the subject of bias against 3rd party plugs has come up. Already we have seen these biases are coming from years past without knowledge of present day software. Science is lack of bias. Test each manufacturers plug without bias and I’m in. Trashing 3rd party products is silly because they sound better than MOTU’s, otherwise we would not need them. If DP had all the plugs and VIs these other companies made, I would be glad to stay with MOTU only. It would be so much simpler. But that is not reality. 3rd party plugs are a VERY necessary “evil”. ALL DAWs need to learn to “play nice” with 3rd party plugs.

[Robert Randolph]

Maybe we could start off by just accepting what Robert has planned and move on, ok guys? I don't think we'll ever find another plan that silences all critics, so let's just call this done.

Shooshie

Yes, please. It's more than good enough to get started.

I agree that we should accept this plan, but I think it is good that the subject of bias against 3rd party plugs has come up. Already we have seen these biases are coming from years past without knowledge of present day software. Science is lack of bias. Test each manufacturers plug without bias and I’m in. Trashing 3rd party products is silly because they sound better than MOTU’s, otherwise we would not need them. If DP had all the plugs and VIs these other companies made, I would be glad to stay with MOTU only. It would be so much simpler. But that is not reality. 3rd party plugs are a VERY necessary “evil”. ALL DAWs need to learn to “play nice” with 3rd party plugs.

I think there is a natural bias against third party plug-ins because this is a bug list for Digital Performer.

If there's any evidence that it may not be DP's fault, then I think we have to assume for the sake of brevity that it is not DP's fault.

If you really feel that there is a plugin bug that should be listed, despite being problematic in other DAWs, make a techlink and I'll happily add anything that Motu themselves deems as a confirmed issue.

[Robert Randolph]

Also, I'll work on putting up the main post tomorrow.

Thank you for all your support, ideas and discussion.

[kassonica]

I think this is a great idea...

Thanks for putting in the effort in doing this

[Michael Canavan]

I've read this whole thread Robert, but I don't know if this has been discussed or not yet?
Personally I think as end users it's very important to not jump to conclusions on whether or not a bug is due to an errant plug in or to DP's VST/AU implementation in the current version.

I use this example a lot but it's noteworthy, A few years ago testing problems I had with Live, Logic and sometimes DP with sending Beat Clock to a PolyEvolver that controlled it's arpeggiator and sequencer, Live looked absolutely terrible, notes recorded were all over the place, Logic was a little better, and DP wasn't too bad.. I railed on the Ableton Live forums about how awful Live's Beat Clock was until discovering that a Logitech Mouse driver was the culprit. When I removed it all three had perfect sync to Beat Clock. Ableton had gotten so much hassle about their Beat Clock sync in earlier version than they had over polled the Beat Clock signal to make sure it was tight, but that had meant a Logitech buggy driver was causing them more problems.

Mainly, if a plug in and DP are at odds, even if other DAWs work with that plug in just fine, it could very well still be the plug ins fault. A very clear example of that happened when the AU implementation in DP first happened. Apple had without telling DAW manufacturers tweaked the AU implementation to accommodate Logic. MOTU diligently stuck to the spec and Audio Units crashed DP that worked "fine" in Logic.

Unless MOTU or a third party plug in manufacturer has admitted fault I would refrain from pointing fingers. With no malice if we decide to try to determine guilt with our own evidence, we can very easily blame the wrong party.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Unless MOTU or a third party plug in manufacturer has admitted fault I would refrain from pointing fingers. With no malice if we decide to try to determine guilt with our own evidence, we can very easily blame the wrong party.

Apparently the deal is done. There'll be a bug thread and we'll see how that goes. I wish you guys luck, I really do! I remain skeptical that anything productive comes from this, just a slugfest about how many bugs DP has - according to this small group of experts.

[Shooshie]

Unless MOTU or a third party plug in manufacturer has admitted fault I would refrain from pointing fingers. With no malice if we decide to try to determine guilt with our own evidence, we can very easily blame the wrong party.

Apparently the deal is done. There'll be a bug thread and we'll see how that goes. I wish you guys luck, I really do! I remain skeptical that anything productive comes from this, just a slugfest about how many bugs DP has - according to this small group of experts.

Oh, c'mon! You're an expert, too, and pretty soon you'll be happily submitting bugs with the best of them. I know you can't resist!



Shoosh

[Robert Randolph]

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=61937

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=61939

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Checked out the new thread. Thanks for the hard work.

Two things pop out:

1- Reporting with all the "requirements" and having to copy and paste to report seems more than a bit excessive. Many will be put off by that.

2- Are we talking Mac and Windows bugs here or both? If it's a bug in Windows does it get included the in the main thread or will there be a Windows specific version? Are the moderators of the thread sufficiency versed in both operating systems and what DP can and can't do on a PC v. a Mac?

[Robert Randolph]

Checked out the new thread. Thanks for the hard work.

Two things pop out:

1- Reporting with all the "requirements" and having to copy and paste to report seems more than a bit excessive. Many will be put off by that.

2- Are we talking Mac and Windows bugs here or both? If it's a bug in Windows does it get included the in the main thread or will there be a Windows specific version? Are the moderators of the thread sufficiency versed in both operating systems and what DP can and can't do on a PC v. a Mac?

1. I am conflicted on this.

Part of me wishes to weed out people that won't take the effort to file a concise bug report. If I was being paid as part of Motu's support staff then I wouldn't even think twice about dealing with awful bug reports, but I'm not. So I somewhat expect the effort to be split a bit, give me a decent report and I will do the footwork.

The other part of me understands that not everyone has the time or even ability to format a post correctly. Those folks are likely going to be sub-group of users that will me most frustrated by bugs, and you are certainly right that this will add to the frustration.

Ideally there would be a way for someone to file a bug in a form, rather than having to edit a post. Similar to filing a techlink.

At first glance it doesn't seem like it would be too difficult to setup something like that. Does that sound more reasonable?

2. There is a windows thread here: viewtopic.php?f=31&t=61939&p=527099#p527099

I think it's a reasonable assumption that the mac DP version be treated as the 'master version' for the sake of discussion. All cross-platform bugs be posted in the OS X thread, and windows-only bugs in the windows thread.

Is there a better way that I can make it clear that this is the case? I do have a post at the top of th e Windows thread, but maybe I'm not being as concise as I could be.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." ~ Leonardo DaVinci

[Phil O]

1- Reporting with all the "requirements" and having to copy and paste to report seems more than a bit excessive. Many will be put off by that.

What about having it there as an option? People could copy/paste if they wish but it's not mandatory.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

And how is that different than reporting bugs now except there's a moderator to control one's posts to conform to the criteria. The whole thing still sounds incredibly controlling and off putting. I mean, it's already a bit out of control and only one person has posted.

[Phil O]

Yeah, I see your point. I'm just thinkin' out loud here.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Well, it's a noble experiment so hopefully the bugs in the bug thread will get fixed in the .01 version.