Feature Request- Trim faders for CC and automation data.

[toodamnhip]

I would like DP to have trim faders built in for all CC and automation data, just like it has for audio data.
EQ: To be able to ride the overall amounts up and down so that the boosts and cuts remain but can be reduced.
Often, when mixing, one’s ears get burned out and although the freq for cuts and boosts were correct, it is easy to OVER boost and cut. This applies to all sorts of CC and automation data. The other way this could be done would be to reduce the % of eq, compression etc. But that would require new plug ins. A better solution is trim faders for anything DP automates.

CC data: Often, one makes good maneuvers on strings but overall, the data is too high a value creating a harshness in the strings. Again, to be able to just pull it all back a touch, (or add to it), would be fantastic. Again, with a fader, in the same way “trim” is used on volume.

Yes, I know that one can go deep into the data and pull it all down, but this is cumbersome and can’t be heard in real time as easily.

Imagine if you all could go into a vocal EQ and just soften it or make it more edgy with ONE fader?

My inspiration for all of this is isotope Ozone 4 and 5, where one can use a slider to reduce the amount of any given processor. Often, but the time a mix is cranking, I find it really nice to keep all compressor settings but just pull them all back a bit with a slider while listening to the kick etc.

Same goes for EQs, exciters, etc,

A dream for MOTU to create this perhaps. but I think it makes sense and is definitely “do-able”.

[stubbsonic]

If I understand your suggestion, it would be like having a "scale automation" but instead of a command, it would just be an "offset" fader-- so that you could ride any existing automation up or down but keep the moves intact.

That would be useful with MIDI as well, but would get complicated with having a parked fader, plus automation, plus the "offset multiplier". It could work as a plug in "scale controller". But of course, the user would need to keep pretty careful track of MIDI channels, if multiple tracks are playing one channel.

I even like the idea of being able to pop up a fader to do a destructive scale automation move.

[toodamnhip]

If I understand your suggestion, it would be like having a "scale automation" but instead of a command, it would just be an "offset" fader-- so that you could ride any existing automation up or down but keep the moves intact.

That would be useful with MIDI as well, but would get complicated with having a parked fader, plus automation, plus the "offset multiplier". It could work as a plug in "scale controller". But of course, the user would need to keep pretty careful track of MIDI channels, if multiple tracks are playing one channel.

I even like the idea of being able to pop up a fader to do a destructive scale automation move.

, Yes I meant destructive, but you nailed the name of it, "scale automation" but with faders!

[stubbsonic]

Yea it would be nice to see this added as a feature or an additional mode. Though it is not impossible to select all the automation points and drag up/down-- it isn't so easy.

For audio, if I am in a view (say volume), then having a floating fader appear to scale that currently viewed automation would be handy.

For MIDI, I think it is more complicated, but not impossible. If I have volume automation present in that track, then there could be a fader "mode" (for volume, at least) where if I hold down a key modifier, it drags the CC7's up and down together for the entire track. Could it get messy? Surely.

OTOH, if MOTU takes a hard look at MIDI plugins to see what is possible, they might be able to have an insert that can pop out a slider. That would be non-desctructive, which in this case would be ideal. If the fader is raised or lowered to the point of "clipping" (i.e., where high values pin at top, or low values pin at the bottom, and peaks are flattened) we'd want the ability to have original values "remembered" if a later move is to reduce the change. That's why thinking of it as a non-desctructive scaler or offset is more ideal.

[toodamnhip]

I will add here that there is ALREADY a trim for MIDI volume. Thus trims for " MIDI" are quite possible

[stubbsonic]

I guess I just needed to go and look up the Trim modes for automation!!

I don't use automation via faders. I'm always editing vectors in the graphic window. So I need to learn more about this. It's confusing-- even if the manual is clear.

[cuttime]

Forgive my ignorance, but is this feature request the same as, or related to, the VCA faders that were originally ballyhooed by MOTU when DP9 was first announced, but never materialized? I guess I'm having a hard time grasping the concept.

[bayswater]

Forgive my ignorance, but is this feature request the same as, or related to, the VCA faders that were originally ballyhooed by MOTU when DP9 was first announced, but never materialized? I guess I'm having a hard time grasping the concept.

Do you remember that? I thought I did too but then figured I got it confused with Logic's new VCA faders.

I don't think this request has much to do with VCA faders, but looks a lot like Logic Smart controls, customized to use faders, with more than one item linked to a specific controller. I'd guess you could do it with Custom Panels (or Logic Environment) if these weren't quite as fussy as they are.

[toodamnhip]

It's been along time since I use DP's "custom consoles".
If a given user had to make a custom console for every EQ boost, MIDI cc etc. it would be too much work but I do wonder if custom consoles can somehow do what I'm asking for?

[cuttime]

Forgive my ignorance, but is this feature request the same as, or related to, the VCA faders that were originally ballyhooed by MOTU when DP9 was first announced, but never materialized? I

Do you remember that? I thought I did too but then figured I got it confused with Logic's new VCA faders.

Now I'm beginning to doubt my recall. I tried to find the announced features and couldn't. I seem to recall it was a video from NAMM.

[bayswater]

It's been along time since I use DP's "custom consoles".
If a given user had to make a custom console for every EQ boost, MIDI cc etc. it would be too much work but I do wonder if custom consoles can somehow do what I'm asking for?

I'm sure you could, but my experience with custom consoles is they are not very generalizable, and would need to edit every time you use them. The Logic feature is maybe a little more flexible. I don't know how this would be done without having to do a lot of customization every time you use them. E.g., in Logic you could make a bank of MIDI faders that cover all the CCs you are likely to use, but you'd still want to customize by putting different labels on them, have multiple destinations for some faders and so on. I did once make a bank of 16 faders in custom consoles thinking I could use them it control some parameters on my K2000, but the work involved in setting it up to do different things made it not worth the effort.

Putting Custom Consoles behind some sort of well designed setup window analogous to the Groups window might be a way forward.

[toodamnhip]

Getting off the subject, but if I were to set up a custom console, I would have to make it in a template form and always use those EQ's in every channel if I set up a console to edit and EQ for example .
But this feature request is really for MOTU.
And again, I know it can be done because, MOTU has trim for controller number seven. This means they can make a trim for any controller that they want to make one for.
It's all just data so it should not be that hard, there can be trim controls for any parameter, EQ boost and cut, or whatever

[musicman691]

Forgive my ignorance, but is this feature request the same as, or related to, the VCA faders that were originally ballyhooed by MOTU when DP9 was first announced, but never materialized? I guess I'm having a hard time grasping the concept.

Damn - I'd forgotten about that. I wonder a: what happened and b: will we ever see VCA faders?