Inserting volume changes.

[ski spiggy]

Hi all. I have put up with this for years. Decided it was time to ask. If I insert a volume value in between two other volume values which are equal, 99 times out of 100, the inserted volume value will not be the same as the two volume values either side of it. The only time you can guarantee that it will be the same, is if the two values either side are 0.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Spigg

[Guitar Gaz]

Volume on what ? MIDI Tracks? Audio (which you can record using the mixer fader record)? You give no indication of OS or DP version. Difficult to know what you mean.

[bayswater]

Best to explain what you're trying to do. If I use the pencil to add a volume point in MIDI or Audio tracks, the point will appear at the point of the pencil, that is, where I put it. Also don't understand, if you have two volume points that are the same, why you would want to insert another between them at the same volume level.

[ski spiggy]

Fair call. I've just put in a signature. Should have done that a long time ago. My appologies.
I only use audio, so audio tracks. If I want to increase or decrease a phrase in a vocal, I will place in two volume values between two existing values and then move them up or down incrementaly until the vocal sits. Having to change the value of the inserted changes when they should just be the same as the two surrounding volume changes is frustrating.

[Shooshie]

It's hard to know what you're talking about from that brief sentence, but let me guess:

Example:
A````````C'''''''~~~~-----.......,,,,,,___E___,,,,,,.......-----~~~~''''''''D```````B

1) You have a range from point A to point B, each at, say 99.
2) In between A & B, you have points C & D, between which you want to create a ramp. Let's make it a double ramp, V-shaped down to point E and back up to point D.
3) You enter a change of 99 to 10 from C to E, and 10 to 99 from point E to D.
4) At point D, it leaves you with either 98 or 100, but not 99.
5) This means the volume changes again between points D and B. (my points' letter names aren't in order, but rather form boundaries of areas)

Maybe you are doing this by Percent, rather than continuous change from C to E to D. Percent would be hard to match on the up ramp, making it a mirror of the down ramp. I don't know if you could actually do it.

So let's say you use a continuous change from C to E to D.
• Is the grid turned on? I can see the grid possibly interfering with a perfect return to 99.
• Are the number of beats and ticks exactly the same between C to E and between E to D? For DP to calculate identical values, it would help if the ramps are identical in length.
• If not, what if you copy the down ramp, paste it into place for the up ramp, then use Retrograde on it to reverse the values into a mirror image of the down ramp? It's just a thought, if you want it to be perfect.
• After the above step, if the two ramps differ in length, you can grab the end of one and CONTROL-DRAG it to proportionally stretch or shrink it to fit.

But I'm not even sure I read your question as you intended in the first place. It was not very clear, so I've just guessed all the above. If you give us a better idea of what you want to do, maybe we can come up with a solution.

Shooshie

[MIDI Life Crisis]

If'n I understan, it has to do wth ANY insertion between two existing points and if'n that's the case, look at the data value before you click on the mouse to make the new data point. If that matches the surrounding data it will be the same. If it's not, your pointing device is not precise enough.

That said, what still gets me is if you enter that point (correctly or not) in "bar" view and drag, sometimes it ramps and sometimes it "steps" to the dragged value. I wish THAT was more consistent.

[bayswater]

OK, now I see what you mean. Draw a line in the volume lane at, e.g., -3. With the lasso tool, hover over the line at various places. When it turns into a hand, click on the line to put another point on the line. It will vary around -3, and rarely be exactly -3. If the original value was, e.g., -2.73, the new value entered will never match because it will be rounded to the nearest .1 db. You can see this by looking in the Event and Cursor Info windows at the top of the Sequence Editor window, assuming these are displayed.

I guess that shouldn't happen but I'm still not clear on why it matters. Once you have the two new volume points in place, you'll be setting their level by listening, and their final level will not be the same as the levels before and after (or else you wouldn't be changing the volume level) so why would their absolute values matter at the time you create them?

Anyway, if you have the info windows showing, you can select one of the two initial volume points using the lasso tool (not a pointer -- using that may change the value) and the Event Info Window will tell you its value. Now when you hover over the line and the 'hand' appears you can see in the Cursor Info Window what value will be inserted, (rounded to the closest .1db).

Another way to do it: use the Scissor Tool to isolate the portion of the soundbite you want to adjust. Switch the view or lane Bite Volume. The thin white line showing Bite Volume level will be the same in the newly isolated soundbite as it is in the soundbites before and after it. Grab the thin white line at the left or right boundary of the soundbite, and drag it up and down. Again the value to the left in the Cursor Info window will tell you the current value of the bite volume as you adjust it.

... and if you use Trim mode automation to adjust the level using a fader during playback, the problem may not disappear, but becomes irrelevant.