Comments on DP 9.02

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MIDI Life Crisis
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Re: Comments on DP 9.02

Post by MIDI Life Crisis »

labman wrote:Hey MLC. Does purring along mean you solved the disappearing files issue that had plagued you?
Actually, it was disappearing tracks, and yes, I am not seeing that now. I believe after the last El Cap update, so perhaps that had something to do with it.
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Re: Comments on DP 9.02

Post by toodamnhip »

billf wrote:
toodamnhip wrote:If MOTU believes in their own damn Daw, they should make a professional control surface for it.
At this point I would settle for an iPad DP controller update from MOTU.
If I wanted an iPad controller, Id get the Slate board.

But whatever MOTU does, I’d love it if they could prove to me their entire staff isn’t sitting around mixing with mouses.

Hey , I’ve got a GREAT idea.

Let’s make the GREATEST workstation in the world, and when it’s finished, we can ride vocals in 1/2 db increments with a mouse!!!
And we can stereo balance left-right vocal pairings, we can do it with ONE mouse, going back and forth for and hour when it would only take a moment with faders!!

Whoopee....... :dance:
Last edited by toodamnhip on Mon Apr 11, 2016 5:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Comments on DP 9.02

Post by toodamnhip »

Tripi wrote: I then offered to be a "real" beta tester for them, and got nothin'
Good luck with that mano. lol
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Re: Comments on DP 9.02

Post by SchrodingersCat »

Seems like this thread is getting stale, but the last few posts speculate that the infamous line mode behavior in 9.02 is related to OSx versions. Well, I'm a windows 10 user with the same trouble.

In fact, I'm finding that there are significant bugs with "latch"
and "overwrite" modes for cc data recording as well.

My assessment so far, after struggling for 3 months, is that this DAW is not very friendly for MIDI editing when cc contours are important. I have to say I'm entirely disappointed; I feel like I've wasted my money and countless hours learning a new DAW to finally realize it is riddled with bugs that destroy efficiency. I was under the impression that DP was supposed to be a world class MIDI editing solution. Based on my experience so far, I think not.
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Re: Comments on DP 9.02

Post by toodamnhip »

SchrodingersCat wrote:Seems like this thread is getting stale, but the last few posts speculate that the infamous line mode behavior in 9.02 is related to OSx versions. Well, I'm a windows 10 user with the same trouble.

In fact, I'm finding that there are significant bugs with "latch"
and "overwrite" modes for cc data recording as well.

My assessment so far, after struggling for 3 months, is that this DAW is not very friendly for MIDI editing when cc contours are important. I have to say I'm entirely disappointed; I feel like I've wasted my money and countless hours learning a new DAW to finally realize it is riddled with bugs that destroy efficiency. I was under the impression that DP was supposed to be a world class MIDI editing solution. Based on my experience so far, I think not.
Sad to see your report. Dp has some amazing features that other DAWs do not have or have only recently developed. People around here like Shooshie will take the time to elaborate on these features.
But, I have found similar issues with DP over the years.
***MIDI play back choking when riding MIDI automation.
***MIDI not being updated for years and year, thus MOTU resting on it;s laurels, resulting in “best MIDI” daw status eroding.
***failure to update the ability to automate realtime MIDI plug ins.
***stick notes from time to time in various versions.
*** CC automation and editing not being able to be more like regular automation. This particular issue being an example of MOTU not keeping up with the improvements in VIs. Today’s VI world requires a much improved ability to address and ride automation in CC,s and MOTU has utterly failed to seize upon this opportunity to once again be at the forefront of MIDI development.

As I have not gone to other DAWs recently, thus I cannot say whether other DAWS actually beat DP in MIDI capability yet. But I see no work being done by MOTU in this once forward thinking area. Does MOTU feel it’s MIDI is “perfect" and there is no work left to do to improve it’s MIDI? I disagree. Warning MOTU, stop snoozing and listen to VI users who are unhappy.
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Re: Comments on DP 9.02

Post by Shooshie »

First of all, all the best software in the world, among which we find DP, will have dark days from time to time, especially after a huge upgrade. Especially one that expands it to a multi-platform app and requires it to be rewritten in another coding language. That's where we are with DP. Sorry about that. If you'd been around for the past 30 years, you'd have been treated to about 27 years of amazing software that runs consistently and smoothly for 99.9% of all users.

TooDamnHip is one of the 0.1% who manages to see flaws where most of us don't, but that's ok. He accomplishes so much on DP that he makes us all proud. But he often overlooks that when he comes here.

Currently, however, you're both right. DP has some major problems. It appears that it's a deep bug that requires some careful rewriting, because it's really taking MOTU a long time to fix it, and I'm pretty sure they know how important it is to ALL of us, not just you or TooDamnHip. We are ALL inconvenienced when something like that happens. But if you are finding that DP isn't the amazing MIDI app that you've heard about, you're not digging very deep. There's a learning curve, and it does take a long time to level it off. There are other ways to fix the MIDI you're concerned about. Lines Mode isn't the only tool in the shed, my friend.

I'd tell you more, but I've got to get back to work. I'm mixing a new song by an amazing artist whose songs I've had the honor to record and mix. This is the stuff that makes me thrilled to use DP, for at the end of the day, I've got what I believe is the best possible recording of her music.

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Re: Comments on DP 9.02

Post by toodamnhip »

Shooshie wrote:First of all, all the best software in the world, among which we find DP, will have dark days from time to time, especially after a huge upgrade. Especially one that expands it to a multi-platform app and requires it to be rewritten in another coding language. That's where we are with DP. Sorry about that. If you'd been around for the past 30 years, you'd have been treated to about 27 years of amazing software that runs consistently and smoothly for 99.9% of all users.

TooDamnHip is one of the 0.1% who manages to see flaws where most of us don't, but that's ok. He accomplishes so much on DP that he makes us all proud. But he often overlooks that when he comes here.

Currently, however, you're both right. DP has some major problems. It appears that it's a deep bug that requires some careful rewriting, because it's really taking MOTU a long time to fix it, and I'm pretty sure they know how important it is to ALL of us, not just you or TooDamnHip. We are ALL inconvenienced when something like that happens. But if you are finding that DP isn't the amazing MIDI app that you've heard about, you're not digging very deep. There's a learning curve, and it does take a long time to level it off. There are other ways to fix the MIDI you're concerned about. Lines Mode isn't the only tool in the shed, my friend.

I'd tell you more, but I've got to get back to work. I'm mixing a new song by an amazing artist whose songs I've had the honor to record and mix. This is the stuff that makes me thrilled to use DP, for at the end of the day, I've got what I believe is the best possible recording of her music.

Shooshie
I recommend SchrodingersCat go to the tips and watch some of Shooshies’ vids.
As far as my ‘complaints”, they are most often done thinking of what is best for MOTU> And I really believe that re: MIDI, if MOTU does NOT get up to date and take the LEAD in new CC controller automation, they are losing out on a big chance to take yet another lead in MIDI. Editing VI’s is pre historic to me when it comes to controller 1 and 11 and any CC data, (if I don;t want to use pencil tools). For example, how does one overwrite strings levels based off of controller 1? If you take DP out of overdub mode so as to be able to overwrite the old CC data, (or whatever its called), it erases the MIDI notes. So you have to record in overdub mode on passes after pass 1. If you don;t like a section of controller 1, you have to manually erase that section of controller 1, and re- manipulate the mod wheel and try again. If you touch a fader in overdub mode without overwriting, you end up with 2 sets of controller 1 written on top of each other. Of course, you can get crazy and separate controller 1 into it's own track and go into overwrite mode without fear. But what a pain. Then again, you can pencil all CC data. But I use faders and control surfaces and I want them to manipulate CC data like volume data. I use my mod wheel and want it too to be able to correct automation runs. SO here is a big opportunity for MOTU to show they are aware of the work flows of String libraries and take the lead and develop advanced ways of fader manipulation for controller data. I don;t think I am being unappreciative of DP at all when I say this is needed and that things have changed in the MIDI world since MOTU last took MIDI development seriously. Many years ago, CC data was some side line of info that was used occasionally. Now it is vital.
I will add that there are times when I am in a HUGE session and do indeed marvel at everything DP is capable of. But rarely do I come and write about that. So I am indeed guilty of that.
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Re: Comments on DP 9.02

Post by Timeline »

:? I certainly like the tunes I produce in DP so much so, MIDI issue or not, I have given up clients who have moved to Logic or PT. I do hope MOTU works it out though because my $175 bucks, earmarked for 9 sits in a money market account and It's starting to look and smell like doe I can spend on other toys about now.

Maybe they just need a pep talk, ok... Three cheers for DP!
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Re: Comments on DP 9.02

Post by FMiguelez »

toodamnhip wrote: And I really believe that re: MIDI, if MOTU does NOT get up to date and take the LEAD in new CC controller automation, they are losing out on a big chance to take yet another lead in MIDI.
I agree.

Not only that. There are already tools out there that put DP's CC manipulation tools to shame.

Have you guys seen what FL studio can do with those things? The way it can redraw and manipulate them?
Granted. DP is superior in many ways, but that no longer is one of them.

DP USED to have some of the best MIDI editing tools. A few years ago. Now, not so much, I'm afraid :(
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Re: Comments on DP 9.02

Post by Shooshie »

FMiguelez wrote:Have you guys seen what FL studio can do with those things? The way it can redraw and manipulate them?
Most of us are using Macs here. FL Studio has an OS X beta, but it only goes up to Mountain Lion. Not compatible with Yosemite or El Capitan.

I'd love to try it if they ever get their Mac chops together. Not worth buying a PC to see if I like an app that's rising in popularity.

I disagree about the MIDI drawing tools. Granted, I have not tried every DAW, and certainly not FL Studio (for reasons mentioned above). But the point is that I can get exactly what I want, almost immediately when I'm working in MIDI, even with lots of controllers. Just how do you improve on that? Usually, when someone says that, they have not explored the ranges of the drawing and reshaping tools, but you're an old-time user, FM, and I would think they would all be second nature to you.

I have only one gripe about the MIDI Drawing tools. I wish there were keyboard commands for changing the type and action of the reshape and drawing tools. (spline, line, parabola, sine, square, freeform, and percent, scale, add/subtract, etc.) That would eliminate a lot of mousing. Once I have the settings, I work very fast.

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Re: Comments on DP 9.02

Post by bayswater »

Shooshie wrote:
Most of us are using Macs here. FL Studio has an OS X beta, but it only goes up to Mountain Lion. Not compatible with Yosemite or El Capitan.
I went looking for it. It's not really an OS X version, it's the Windows version wrapped in a Windows/Mac converter called Crossover. This still appears in the download section, although the messages in support say it is not being supported because they are working on a native version.
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Re: Comments on DP 9.02

Post by Robert Randolph »

bayswater wrote:
Shooshie wrote:
Most of us are using Macs here. FL Studio has an OS X beta, but it only goes up to Mountain Lion. Not compatible with Yosemite or El Capitan.
I went looking for it. It's not really an OS X version, it's the Windows version wrapped in a Windows/Mac converter called Crossover. This still appears in the download section, although the messages in support say it is not being supported because they are working on a native version.
The native mac alpha version is available to any owner of FLStudio. It works pretty well considering that they're calling it an alpha.

It's being updated rather frequently too, and they have a dedicated small team for it.
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Re: Comments on DP 9.02

Post by bayswater »

Robert Randolph wrote:
bayswater wrote:
Shooshie wrote:
Most of us are using Macs here. FL Studio has an OS X beta, but it only goes up to Mountain Lion. Not compatible with Yosemite or El Capitan.
I went looking for it. It's not really an OS X version, it's the Windows version wrapped in a Windows/Mac converter called Crossover. This still appears in the download section, although the messages in support say it is not being supported because they are working on a native version.
The native mac alpha version is available to any owner of FLStudio. It works pretty well considering that they're calling it an alpha.

It's being updated rather frequently too, and they have a dedicated small team for it.
Thanks. I guess us natives will have to wait for a while to see what they have. You'd think they'd want some Mac only types to have a look at it.
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Re: Comments on DP 9.02

Post by FMiguelez »

Shooshie wrote:Just how do you improve on that? Usually, when someone says that, they have not explored the ranges of the drawing and reshaping tools, but you're an old-time user, FM, and I would think they would all be second nature to you.
I mean, DP's tools obviously work. I became familiar with your CC grabbing techniques years ago, and they are awesome. I don't know what I'd do without them.

BUT, when I saw those video-tutorials, I couldn't help telling myself: "Ha! I wish I could do that. I wish I could do that so easily!"
Especially when re-drawing stuff, FL has some very intuitive and effective tools. Similar to the ones we see in Massive.

Actually, as you no doubt will recall, this has always been my main and almost only pet peeve with DP... And it is related to the fact that copying/pasting, and even snipping and inserting regions which contain lots of CCs is very unreliable (unwanted and non-sensical ramps out of nowhere when pasting, etc).
What annoys me is that it could be fixed so easily! We have even discussed a simple algorithm to take care of this in other threads.

The day MOTU fixes this, that I can select a region in the TO window, and move it and place it anywhere, knowing that its CCs and/or automation will be placed reliably, that day I will be 99% satisfied.
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Re: Comments on DP 9.02

Post by toodamnhip »

FMiguelez wrote:
Shooshie wrote:Just how do you improve on that? Usually, when someone says that, they have not explored the ranges of the drawing and reshaping tools, but you're an old-time user, FM, and I would think they would all be second nature to you.
I mean, DP's tools obviously work. I became familiar with your CC grabbing techniques years ago, and they are awesome. I don't know what I'd do without them.

BUT, when I saw those video-tutorials, I couldn't help telling myself: "Ha! I wish I could do that. I wish I could do that so easily!"
Especially when re-drawing stuff, FL has some very intuitive and effective tools. Similar to the ones we see in Massive.

Actually, as you no doubt will recall, this has always been my main and almost only pet peeve with DP... And it is related to the fact that copying/pasting, and even snipping and inserting regions which contain lots of CCs is very unreliable (unwanted and non-sensical ramps out of nowhere when pasting, etc).
What annoys me is that it could be fixed so easily! We have even discussed a simple algorithm to take care of this in other threads.

The day MOTU fixes this, that I can select a region in the TO window, and move it and place it anywhere, knowing that its CCs and/or automation will be placed reliably, that day I will be 99% satisfied.
I cannot tell you how many times I have lost time and money with the ridiculous way DP pastes regions. Whoever designed this was most likely thinking about chunks and maybe though pasting regions was not that important? and failed to implement a real ability to easily paste without ridiculous automation ramps. I second the notion that DP needs to fix its ability to paste cc data properly. If bar #10 has a volume at 50 and I paste into bar 100, there is no sane reason why there should be a ramping of the audio level from 50 to 100 for all of those bars . The reality of working in the studio dictates that one has to try to quickly paste things at times and I end up having to go back in and fix all these ridiculous ramps on all parameters. The best way to avoid getting a ramping, is to create snapshots that anchor in a section but this is still a pain in the butt . Please MOTU, fix!
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