DP9.02 VEP offline bounce timing

[Tripi]

This is really bugging me, and I can't seem to find a way around it. I've been bouncing all of my stems for a tv delivery using OFFLINE bounce, with my MAIN OUTPUT as the source for each stem. I noticed the other day that a drum stemmed looked very odd, which had Kontakt Studio Drummer as MIDI in Vienna Ensemble Pro, and a high hat audio track combined in one stem. The high hat was right on the grid, but all of the MIDI parts from VEP were behind.

I ran a test today to confirm this. If I offline bounce a simple drum part (hosted in VEP), and import it to an audio track it is DEFINITELY behind the grid. If I take the same audio part and shift it to be on the beat (on an audio track) and re-bounce it offline, then re-import to another audio track it is still DEFINITELY right on the grid.

So, there is a discrpancy between what is hosted inside DP and what is hosted outside of DP (like in VEP) when doing an offline bounce. This sucks for projects that contain a mix of parts hosted in and out of DP. Normal playback in DP of a VEP hosted sound is great though.... right on the click.

I'm wondering how we can get around this problem? I have everything set to run in REALTIME MODE. PLUGIN LATENCY is turned on. I don't have enough hair to keep pulling it out over this problem. Here's a quick screenshot to show what the results look like.

Any thoughts?

[Tripi]

Just wanted to add one extra test result. If I change VEP's plugin settings (the one hosted on DP's aux channel) to ZERO LATENCY (zero buffers... which is actually 64 samples), there is almost no latency in the offline bounce. I don't understand why DP isn't detecting VEP's latency when doing offline bouncing, and I doubt I can run my full orchestral template at zero buffers.

Is anyone else using VEP like this?

[Tripi]

I think I found the problem, and it sucks. The latency is only happening when you use an output from VEP other than 1 & 2. I have 16 pairs of audio coming out of VEP in to 16 AUX tracks in DP. If an instrument in VEP is set to output 1 & 2, the offline bounce with a million plugins on it can be imported spot on with the grid. As soon as you choose an output in VEP other than 1 & 2..... everything slides late, no matter how low the latency is set.

I don't know if this is a DP or VEP problem, but it certainly is a problem for my big template. Just wanted to share the knowledge in case anyone else is experiencing this.

[labman]

Good catch Tripi. Post a note on the VEP forum for Paul and Marnix to see. They will certainly be able to verify where the trouble lies. They have been so good to us DP folks, that if is on their end, I bet they will correct pronto.

https://vsl.co.at/community/posts/t3914 ... post238345

[Tripi]

Thanks Labman. I had seen their forum also, but wanted to start here. Now the question is on both forums. Sure hope it's something easily fixed.

[labman]

me too

[stringtheory]

Waves L3 caused me a similar problem, latency in VEP tracks which were not coming out of the VEP main outputs. if you're using that somewhere (it was on my DP master fader track), try another limiter and see if the problem persists.

[labman]

Has there been any progress Tripi?

[Tripi]

Well, just to update or close this thread, I contacted the good people at Vienna and sent them a boat load of test files. They were definitely able to reproduce this bug..... but here's the final answer from them:

This is just to let you know that our developers got in touch with their colleagues from MOTU in this matter and it looks like this is in fact a bug in DP.

Best regards from Vienna

I'll email MOTU about this too, but apparently they already know about it (from Vienna).

[labman]

Aha. We all better notify motu !

[Killahurts]

Could it be because the outputs after 1 and 2 on VEP, come into DP as auxes? I wonder if something might be going on with auxes in general..

[Tripi]

I think it has to do with the way DP calculates latency with offline bouncing. It does a good job with playing back, but offline seems to ignore the latency when coming through an AUX return.

[toodamnhip]

The issue of DP and VE Pro syncing has been an on again, off again issue, just like the ridiculous automation issues. Ve Pro was fixed when it made its 1st MAS version and at that time, you could sync drum loops with any buffer settings in DP or VE Pro. And then, poof, broken again in DP 9. I have to believe these are MOTU issues and it really sucks that DP keeps breaking "once fixed" issues with 3rd party companies. If it was just ONE plug in, I would not know who to blame. But it is clear to me something is wrong with DP, especially after Vienna is cool enough to make a dedicated MAS version, only to have DP 9 break sync again. As far as snap shot automation and correct automation handling, MOTU has not fixed this for at least a year and a half.

I look forward to the ultra efficient updates to 9, but I would gladly pay any update costs if MOTU would fix its automation and VE sync.
As for now, I am only safe when running VE at “none” for latency, and DP at 128 buffers.
We all have our talents, but “swing” is huge for me. And the idea that a DAW introduces errors in timing in any way, is unacceptable.

[labman]

TooDamnHip, has this has been written in to motu? We should all write them about this.

[toodamnhip]

TooDamnHip, has this has been written in to motu? We should all write them about this.

Two times without response. One of them very recently. It is my opinion that the lack of response means they know about it and are apathetic about fixing it anytime soon.