Latency on Aux Track Input?

YouTube · Post by **James Steele** » Thu Nov 12, 2015 8:26 pm

Can anyone verify this. I haven't used external synths in a while. Probably not since updating to El Capitan. I have the latest MOTU USB MIDI driver for my MTP/AV. Tonight I'm loading some old projects and the MIDI tracks that are playing on external synths are all clearly late. Visually I can see the wiper reach the note right on the beat... I'm listening to the click... and all MIDI going to external synths is playing late. MIDI going to VIs on the other hand are spot on... perfect timing.

Anyone else? I've tried adjusting various settings related to MIDI and it doesn't fix it.

cuttime · Post by **cuttime** » Thu Nov 12, 2015 8:52 pm

My SY99 seems spot on in a new project and/or template with a 64 buffer. I tried freehand and with quantize and couldn't tell the difference save for my playing.

YouTube · Post by **James Steele** » Thu Nov 12, 2015 8:56 pm

cuttime wrote:My SY99 seems spot on in a new project and/or template with a 64 buffer. I tried freehand and with quantize and couldn't tell the difference save for my playing.

Thanks... it turned out the MIDI was right on time. I verified this by listening through the headphone jack of a synth during playback. External modules are receiving MIDI at the right time, but apparently monitoring through a stereo aux track being fed by two inputs on my 24I/O is introducing noticeable latency. Not sure if this is because I have a PCIe based system, etc. but I haven’t noticed this issue before. I’ll continue to mess with it. This also happened in a test I did with Yosemite. Maybe I need to make a Aux and see if it clears it up. Strange.

YouTube · Post by **James Steele** » Thu Nov 12, 2015 9:13 pm

It turns out that if I monitor my audio inputs on my 24I/O in DP using a stereo aux track I’m getting latency and hearing the synth behind the beat. On the other hand, if I monitor it through an actual stereo audio track I hear things in time without latency. Is this normal? I haven’t loaded up some of these old projects using hardware synths in a long while, but I don’t remember it being that way.

YouTube · Post by **James Steele** » Thu Nov 12, 2015 9:14 pm

I updated the Topic Heading for accuracy.

Shooshie · Post by **Shooshie** » Thu Nov 12, 2015 10:28 pm

James, did you check the setting at:
Preferences / Play and Record / MIDI Solo and Patch Thru / Sync recorded MIDI to Patch Thru [deselect this]

That can cause timing problems if it's selected with external rack gear playing.

Shooshie

rickorick · Post by **rickorick** » Fri Nov 13, 2015 5:44 am

I've had the same thing happen. I just use an audio track with the blue input light on and then record the track as audio.

cleamon · Post by **cleamon** » Fri Nov 13, 2015 9:43 am

James Steele wrote:Can anyone verify this. I haven't used external synths in a while. Probably not since updating to El Capitan. I have the latest MOTU USB MIDI driver for my MTP/AV. Tonight I'm loading some old projects and the MIDI tracks that are playing on external synths are all clearly late. Visually I can see the wiper reach the note right on the beat... I'm listening to the click... and all MIDI going to external synths is playing late. MIDI going to VIs on the other hand are spot on... perfect timing.

Anyone else? I've tried adjusting various settings related to MIDI and it doesn't fix it.

I have always had this problem when sending MIDI to my (external) Proteus/1 or digital piano. I can monitor via CueMix (or the device's headphone jack) and that's great. If I monitor the aux track there is significant latency --- EVEN when I set the hardware buffers to minimum. Of course, if I record that aux to a track, the track will be in perfect time.
[update]
Playing around in HW settings with Host multiplier and work priority can also have an impact on the latency.

Phil O · Post by **Phil O** » Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:30 am

Through the years, I've noticed latency discussions regarding Aux tracks. I've never experienced them myself, but I suspect it's because there are so many different ways to route aux tracks that creating the configuration that causes problems is hit or miss. One thing for certain is that there are MANY threads here containing the words latency AND Aux, suggesting that there is a problem. I don't know what else to say.

Phil

YouTube · Post by **James Steele** » Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:40 am

Shooshie wrote:James, did you check the setting at:
Preferences / Play and Record / MIDI Solo and Patch Thru / Sync recorded MIDI to Patch Thru [deselect this]

That can cause timing problems if it's selected with external rack gear playing.

Yep. First thing I tried. No difference. I think I'll try the Work Priority setting as suggested and see if that makes a difference. I can (and did) just use an actual audio track and monitor through that and it works fine.

Phil O · Post by **Phil O** » Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:20 am

Would Latency Fixer be of any help? Just thinking out loud.

YouTube · Post by **James Steele** » Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:38 am

Phil O wrote:Would Latency Fixer be of any help? Just thinking out loud.

No need I think. Latency Fixer just delays everything else, right? Monitoring through an actual Audio Track is easier. I guess for those with a specific reason for bringing in an external audio source using an Aux Track (to use a V Rack perhaps), then bussing all your other tracks through an Aux with Latency Fixer on it to compensate might be the way to do it. (As an aside, did Latency Fixer ever make the jump to 64 bit? You'd probably have to use 32 Lives on it.)

bayswater · Post by **bayswater** » Fri Nov 13, 2015 5:20 pm

For a long time I used a DM5 for drum tracks sending MIDI from DP and returning audio from the DM5 to DP via a 2408. Most of the time, the timing was good. There was a delay I could see by zooming in to the sample level, but nothing noticeable. But now and then, I got a much longer noticeable delay. Simply restarting everything made it go away. I never figured out why it happened, but I do recall other experiencing the same intermittent problem.

rockitcity · Post by **rockitcity** » Fri Nov 20, 2015 1:01 pm

James Steele wrote:It turns out that if I monitor my audio inputs on my 24I/O in DP using a stereo aux track I’m getting latency and hearing the synth behind the beat. On the other hand, if I monitor it through an actual stereo audio track I hear things in time without latency. Is this normal? I haven’t loaded up some of these old projects using hardware synths in a long while, but I don’t remember it being that way.

I noticed this same issue with live guitar into DP8 to play along with some other tracks. I have an Eleven Rack going analog into my 896 Hybrid, and was just experimenting with bypassing Cue Mix. If I ran the 11R into an aux track I got noticeable delay. If I ran it into an audio track with input monitoring it was straight through with no delay. So, I guess the easy solution is just monitor through an audio track. Plus, you are ready to record when the moment inspires you. Also, with Auto Input monitoring turned on, you are already set up to do punch-ins with existing track playback.

Tim · Post by **Tim** » Fri Nov 20, 2015 6:42 pm

I Think that monitoring through an audio track uses cuemix for low latency, but an Aux track does not.

MOTUnation.com

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