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[musicman691]

And I thought I was the only train fanatic around here (model and full size). Been binge watching some old video tapes (!) of New York Central and it's steam engines this weekend after touring an old abandoned line turned into a hike/bike trail.

Man, you just opened a keg of spikes. I just got back from Spencer, NC, checking out the roundhouse, Shay, E8, and other stuff, not to mention the old Southern's "Loops at Old Fort," east of Asheville. We've got some catching up to do, but I'll spare the poor folks here of what happens when two railroaders get to talking.

Shooshie

Definitely it can get to be very interesting (and heated) comparing notes and thoughts on this old mode of transportation.

[cleamon]

And I thought I was the only train fanatic around here (model and full size). Been binge watching some old video tapes (!) of New York Central and it's steam engines this weekend after touring an old abandoned line turned into a hike/bike trail.

Man, you just opened a keg of spikes. I just got back from Spencer, NC, checking out the roundhouse, Shay, E8, and other stuff, not to mention the old Southern's "Loops at Old Fort," east of Asheville. We've got some catching up to do, but I'll spare the poor folks here of what happens when two railroaders get to talking.

Shooshie

Be careful, there's 3 of us! Don't care much for new stuff - purely transition era and earlier.

[HCMarkus]

Make it four, but sort of retired over here with occasional trips down memory lane as an (apologies to cleamon) EMD fan.

[cleamon]

Make it four, but sort of retired over here with occasional trips down memory lane as an (apologies to cleamon) EMD fan.

Don't get me wrong, I like EMD, but all 4 axle stuff (GP, E, F and SW flavors).

[musicman691]

Be careful, there's 3 of us! Don't care much for new stuff - purely transition era and earlier.

For me it depends; in the full size world I'm strictly transition era. But in my modeling world it's transition era in HO (mostly NYC/NYNH&H) and in N scale it's strictly diesel from the 60's onward to the modern era (CP Rail).

Favorite motive power mfgr - ALCo for steam and diesel.

[Shooshie]

When I was in college, I worked summers on the railroad as a brakeman. It's hard to compare it to my music careers, but it was really an incredible job. You grow up really fast. The RR's a dangerous place, and you get reminded of it all the time. (trains kill a lot of living things, plus it's easy to get injured if you're not careful) Prior to that, I was just a steam fan. Afterward I had developed an affinity for the diesel-electric, too. EMD, GE and Alco were my favorites, and they were an incestuous bunch, all working together at some point, while turning away and competing later. EMD got it right with the E, FT, and F series. Most of the engines I rode were GPs, but they had a certain allure, kind of like a big old mutt. With Steam, it was Lima, Baldwin and Alco, not necessarily in any order. I always loved the big Santa Fe locomotives, but later learned just how amazing the N&W was, which rolled its own, not to mention PRR, Reading, NKP, T&P, SP, UP.... heck, they all were great. Then there were the Shays and Willamettes.

But the drama plays out today even as we speak. RRs are adapting to a whole different world. It's really pretty interesting now, with thousands of old lines consolidated into just 5 class-1 roads in the US. Seven if you include the Canucks. But at least they are profitable and growing, rather than decaying as they all were doing when we were growing up.

Music was almost a fantasy world for me. It was wonderful, but it was never like the "real world." Railroads kept me grounded through all these years. That's where things always stayed very real.

Shoosh

[cleamon]

But at least they are profitable and growing, rather than decaying as they all were doing when we were growing up.
Shoosh

Bad news here in the Appalachians, home of the former Clinchfield. CSX is closing the Erwin, TN. facility (car shop, engine service, crew changes, pusher service, large yard and MoW) due to the the decline in coal business. Real sudden too - 300 people came in one day and was told it's over; go home. The town of Erwin just built a huge highway bridge to avoid the long delays with the grade level crossing at the yard.
Most remaining rail traffic is being routed elsewhere.

[musicman691]

I hadn't worked for a railroad but when I worked for US Steel at their Fairless Works plant we had a small electric engine we used to shunt cars around at the Coke Works section and working that took some concentration. They actually limited the range (it was run on a battery that got charged by a set of contact rails that were about shoulder high) on that loco because someone had gotten drunk one night and took it for a joyride around the plant.

Dangerous indeed when moving even just a couple of hoppers loaded with coal dust and coke breeze. They had actually tried remote controlling this loco and the hot car that caught coke as it was pushed out of the coke ovens but there were too many times the system went haywire.

The rest of the plant looked like something right out of the Baldwin diesel catalog.

Oh and let's not forget about the rotary hopper car dumper for incoming coal.

[Shooshie]

But at least they are profitable and growing, rather than decaying as they all were doing when we were growing up.
Shoosh

Bad news here in the Appalachians, home of the former Clinchfield. CSX is closing the Erwin, TN. facility (car shop, engine service, crew changes, pusher service, large yard and MoW) due to the the decline in coal business. Real sudden too - 300 people came in one day and was told it's over; go home. The town of Erwin just built a huge highway bridge to avoid the long delays with the grade level crossing at the yard.
Most remaining traffic is being routed elsewhere.

Man, I've been hearing about that. That's truly sad. I just hope they don't tear up the tracks yet. Once the tracks are gone, there's no bringing them back. Just too expensive. There may be something that comes along and replaces coal as a profitable cargo if they just won't close up shop. Also, that coal business affects all the roads.

I just came through Erwin about a month ago. That's some beautiful country. In fact, from Asheville to Johnson City is one of the most beautiful stretches of highway in the US. So sorry about the folks who lost their livelihood. I know progress marches on, but I just wish it didn't leave such a trail of destruction behind it. Heck, even music is no stranger to the perils of progress. We're the survivors.

Shooshie

[cleamon]

Man, I've been hearing about that. That's truly sad. I just hope they don't tear up the tracks yet. Once the tracks are gone, there's no bringing them back. Just too expensive. There may be something that comes along and replaces coal as a profitable cargo if they just won't close up shop. Also, that coal business affects all the roads.

I just came through Erwin about a month ago. That's some beautiful country. In fact, from Asheville to Johnson City is one of the most beautiful stretches of highway in the US. So sorry about the folks who lost their livelihood. I know progress marches on, but I just wish it didn't leave such a trail of destruction behind it. Heck, even music is no stranger to the perils of progress. We're the survivors.

Shooshie

I hear you on that. I read that the city is putting in a bid for the property, which spells destruction (of the rails at least) in my mind. There are still sizable industries along that route, at least as far north as Kingsport, so the route is not dead yet.
And yes, it is beautiful country, especially the Nolichucky gorge between Erwin, Tn. and Poplar, NC. (the RR follows this route) -- simply breath taking.
Chuck

[mikehalloran]

This may be my only train post on this board:

Around here, you hear the occasional cries for train service between San Jose and Santa Cruz, especially during the summer beach season. After all, the tracks are still in place through most of the route.

One little problem: During WWII, the Army used the mountain tunnels for demolition practice and blew them all up.

So, while the businesses would like to see the tunnels cleared, the residents would not. It would make Santa Cruz even more of a bedroom community for the Silicon Valley than it already is. This debate has been going on as long as I have been here, years before there was anything called Silicon Valley.

[Shooshie]

This may be my only train post on this board:

Around here, you hear the occasional cries for train service between San Jose and Santa Cruz, especially during the summer beach season. After all, the tracks are still in place through most of the route.

One little problem: During WWII, the Army used the mountain tunnels for demolition practice and blew them all up.

So, while the businesses would like to see the tunnels cleared, the residents would not. It would make Santa Cruz even more of a bedroom community for the Silicon Valley than it already is. This debate has been going on as long as I have been here, years before there was anything called Silicon Valley.

When it comes to commuter rail, the bedroom communities always balk. I don't understand that, really, because it would make their lives so much easier to catch a train, and healthier to walk a block or two each day. But various groups have various perceptions about why it would be bad. Car dealers think it would cut into their business. People near the tracks get an "unfair" boost in property values. Some think it's a pipeline for criminals. In reality, there's probably a little truth to all of their fears, but not enough to make a difference in their lives, whereas commuter rail could make a huge difference. In many cases, those communities started out with rail, but General Motors and oil companies bought up a lot of them and closed them down in the 1930s - 1950s. (Who Framed Roger Rabbit had a subplot which was based on the actual story of the L.A. streetcar shutdown, which later was revealed to have been the work of Detroit and oil interests.)

But maybe Santa Cruz has valid reasons. Who knows? Not mine to call, but they will get it figured out in time. When oil prices are low, nobody cares. When they go up, you start hearing those shouts for rail service.

But this I know from observation and experience: when you remove the rails, you dash any hope of putting them back without enormous expense. Nobody can afford to do it, so it almost never happens. Rails to Trails is a good thing, because if they want to put the rails back, they still can. I've seen where they've put back the rails AND kept a trail there, too. Works for everyone. But there are always people trying to get that railroad property, and they usually do. Money talks.

Shooshie

[musicman691]

But this I know from observation and experience: when you remove the rails, you dash any hope of putting them back without enormous expense. Nobody can afford to do it, so it almost never happens. Rails to Trails is a good thing, because if they want to put the rails back, they still can. I've seen where they've put back the rails AND kept a trail there, too. Works for everyone. But there are always people trying to get that railroad property, and they usually do. Money talks.

Shooshie

It's a rare thing that rails have been put back once removed AND the trail was kept but IIRC from my time when I was an RTC (Rails to Trails Conservancy) member in at least one instance the rails that were put back were a tourist line and they had a fence between the trail and the track. A lot of what RTC goes after are old right-of-ways that are no longer used or usable. On occassion they'll go after a tourist line or one that a rail preservationist group wants to reactivate. Those instances can get ugly. That's why I'm an ex-RTC member as I ran into a conflict of interest and the rails won out in my case because I have the longer history with rails.

I'm not knocking them as they do some good but they and I weren't a good long-term fit.

[Tritonemusic]

..."Loops at Old Fort,"

I can't help it...I must admit that I was quickly skimming and read that as "Loops for Old Farts." Perhaps because I am an old fart and do occasionally use loops.

[Shooshie]

..."Loops at Old Fort,"

I can't help it...I must admit that I was quickly skimming and read that as "Loops for Old Farts." Perhaps because I am an old fart and do occasionally use loops.

Haha! I thought the same thing when I was there. I wondered what it's like to tell people you live at Old Fort, and to hear the same wisecracks over and over all your life. Probably why there aren't a lot of people living there!

The loops at Old Fort are amazing. In order to get over a mountain, the Southern Railroad created a winding track 13 miles long to travel 3 miles. The track keeps looping back to almost the same place, but a little higher each time. It's not as famous as Tehachapi Loop between Mojave and Bakersfield, California — which is still one of the most amazing bits of railroading on the planet, but technically the Old Fort Loops rank right up there with Tehachapi, with an even steeper grade. It's in North Carolina, about a half-hour's drive east of Asheville. From Old Fort you follow Mill Creek Road (Old US 70) north-west into the hills. Pretty soon you come up on Andrew's Geyser, next to Round Knob Lodge. In Google or Apple Maps, you'd zoom out a little at Andrew's Geyser and you'll see the tracks outlining a floral shape, where it keeps tracing the basins of hills and valleys, returning almost to its starting point, but at a higher level. The quickest way to find it is to look up Andrew's Geyser, North Carolina in Google Maps, or Round Knob Lodge in Apple Maps. It'll take you almost to the center of it.

YouTube has many videos of it, but it doesn't lend itself to video except from the air. Trees block the various levels. But if you were there in winter, you'd see a lot more. (leaves gone from trees) Nevertheless, it's still quite a sight, when you can see the train right above you, and hear the engines returning again and again while you're still watching it. If you drive further up Mill Creek Road, you can find better vantage points from which to observe their passage.

There are many other railroad "loops" in the US, including
• Big 10 Curve west of west of Denver, where the BNSF track hits the Rockies
• some big curves on the UP/AT&SF at Cajon Pass
• Horseshoe Curve near Altoona, Pennsylvania
• Georgetown Loop Railroad in Colorado
• Austin Loops at Iron Ridge, Montana

And many, many more. They usually mean spectacular scenery, since that's what made them necessary in the first place. As tourist sites go, they're usually off the beaten path, and not that many people know about them, except for rail fans. They make for worthy treks!

Shooshie