Automation Play buttons default to “ON” makes no sense!!

[toodamnhip]

Those who know me here, know I am a stickler for DP automation and automate everything.

One of the ways I know whether or not a track has BEEN automated is by the status of the little green “automation on” button.

In DP 9, (and maybe earlier versions), the automation button defaults to ON when making a new track.
The makes absolutely ZERO sense to me.
Why would automation default to “on” when none has been made? It is misleading and it is making me have to re-click any new track I make to shut this green button off so I don’t get misled into thinking automation on any given track has been recorded.
Of course, once I record even the smallest automation on a track, it is then fine to have the automation button on to show me I have indeed created automation.

Who agrees or disagrees with my complaint? I would love DP changed to default to NO green lite automation button when a new track is made....because there is NO automation in it yet!!

[Killahurts]

It was new with DP9. I didn't like it either, for all the reasons you say. I agree that the best part is knowing what tracks do and do not have automation. Green light means I'm playing some.. nothing, means exactly that

I went back to DP 8 in short order, but I'm still a little surprised at all the little "default to off/on" prefs that were suddenly changed in DP 9, some of which have no good reason to have been changed, like this one.

There's something so.. I dunno.. "Me too!" about the DP 9 upgrade. Sorry if that's being overly critical.

[toodamnhip]

Automation “ON” = automation exists in the 1st place. How can automation be “on” when there is NONE? Unless of course, we’re talking about “potential” automation ...but what sense does that make?
Sometime I think programmer of audio programs are removed from the work-a-day world of real audio production. I’ve wanted to say that many time but haven’t because I did;t want all the flack from members defending DP programmers as real producers.
But there are many strange quirks that make NO sense in every day work flows and thus I think they were designed by someone in some sort of theoretical world.

[Gravity Jim]

MOTU should clear every change with you.

[bayswater]

I'd be happy to have it off by default, or not -- maybe a pref would be good.

Other than using the green or red shading in the mode button as an indicator that automation is "on" (there are alternatives to this) is there any other reason it ought to default to "off" for a new track?

Otherwise, it seems more convenient to have in read mode by default. I usually use a snapshot or draw some automation in, so having it on by default is on less click per track.

I notice at least some other DAWs don't have an "off" state for automation but have it in read or one of write modes all the time. Logic for example, has read, touch, latch and write with trim and relative options. One of the first four is always on.

[toodamnhip]

I'd be happy to have it off by default, or not -- maybe a pref would be good.

Other than using the green or red shading in the mode button as an indicator that automation is "on" (there are alternatives to this) is there any other reason it ought to default to "off" for a new track?

Otherwise, it seems more convenient to have in read mode by default. I usually use a snapshot or draw some automation in, so having it on by default is on less click per track.

I notice at least some other DAWs don't have an "off" state for automation but have it in read or one of write modes all the time. Logic for example, has read, touch, latch and write with trim and relative options. One of the first four is always on.

If you can explain to me how an automation button should be on when there is NO automation present, I will understand. Otherwise, it makes ZERO sense.
I could spell it out further I guess:
You see a series of vocal tracks, 3 of which you have automated, 2 you have not but those last two have the green button on also, because DP has NO differentiation and default s to green “on” for everything>.

You want to temporarily pull down the volume on one of the vocal tracks to let a singer sing easier but you want it to go back to where it is from BEFORE you touch it after the singer sings. OK. If there is indeed automation written, you can temporarily shut off the automation knowing that when you hit the green button later, it will GO BACK to where it is now. But, because EVERYTHING has a green button, you have no idea whether you have previously automated that vocal track or not. So you then have to either write automation “to be sure”. just because of DP’s ridiculous “ON status of everything” policy, or, you have to look inside the tracks data to see if there is automation before touching the fader to temporarily turn down the vocal......what a waste of time, and REALLY stupid. And for what? Again, why have automation “on” when there is NO automation present. Am I missing something here>? Is this not obvious?
Does anyone who programmed DP ever need to turn automation on and off? Do they worry about touching a fader and losing a setting due to thinking there was automation to snap it back when there is none? DO DP programmers ever need to be able to tell at a glance whether there is automation on a track? This is the kind of stuff that makes me think DP programmers never produce music or program out of some laboratory bubble. I am not trying to be mean here but wow, but this need for the green automation button to actually have a meaning is plainly obvious.
Pro Tools even has red outlines on every effect letting you know automation has been written on that effect, and that is yet another serious flaw about DP. Why does DP not do the same and have automated parameters show a red outline? I have the same issue when I have to fish around to check whether or not I have automated an EQ. Oh man how DP needs me to show them some things...sorry, but it's just true. This is no brainer stuff. ANY indicator button should mean something when you look at it. DP’s automation buttons mean little if anything. Why?

[EMRR]

Agreed, makes no sense. That is totally whacky.

[bayswater]

I'd be happy to have it off by default, or not -- maybe a pref would be good.

If you can explain to me how an automation button should be on when there is NO automation present, I will understand. Otherwise, it makes ZERO sense.

I did give you a reason to have it on by default, and I did say it ought to be something you can control because that reason is not universal. Possibly, most users will want it off.

By your argument I guess DP 8 should not have let you put automation into Read mode before writing any automation on a track?

Also, by your argument, it doesn't really make any difference whether or not the green button comes on by default for a new track. For example, you want to know whether there is EQ automation? The green button only tells you there is some automation on the track, not what it is. You still have to go to that layer in the SE, or remember what the automation line looks like for that specific controller, or open the lanes and look at the labels, or something else, other than the automation status button. If all you need to know is if some automation of some sort is present, you can just look at the track. You don't need to see the status button.

What you really want is what you asked for a long time ago -- some sort of indicator, like a red line or box, of anything that is automated, a la PT.

[Phil O]

I can go either way. If the default is ON then I will turn it off for tracks with no automation. If the default is OFF then I must turn it on for tracks with automation.

I guess in that respect the ON default makes more sense. I don't HAVE to turn it off, I just choose to for tracks with no automation. On the other hand, I HAVE to turn it on for those tracks with automation (OFF default). If the default is ON, then I don't HAVE to do anything. (kinda what bayswater said)

But like I said, I can go either way. No biggie. An option to set the default would be nice, but I'd rather see MOTU spending time on bug fixes.

BTW, the option-click and command-click features work for automation buttons.

Phil

[Killahurts]

I can go either way. If the default is ON then I will turn it off for tracks with no automation. If the default is OFF then I must turn it on for tracks with automation.

When you record automation on a track, the play button is automatically turned on for you, so the manual toggle is only necessary for turning them off when they are on by default.. just sayin'

But it's just not a significant problem, definitely not worth arguing about.

[bayswater]

When you record automation on a track, the play button is automatically turned on for you, so the manual toggle is only necessary for turning them off when they are on by default.. just sayin'

Yes, but not when you do a snapshot or draw automation.

[toodamnhip]

Not worth arguing about for who? Or is it whom?

[Robert Randolph]

Not worth arguing about for who? Or is it whom?

Whom. It's a prepositional object in this case, meaning the correct phrase is "for whom."

You can figure it out 99% of the time by substituting the words 'he' or 'him'. who=he, whom=him.

Or... if you just want to sound pretentious no matter what, use whom for everything.

[Phil O]

When you record automation on a track, the play button is automatically turned on for you, so the manual toggle is only necessary for turning them off when they are on by default.. just sayin'

Yes, but not when you do a snapshot or draw automation.

Exactly.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

But it's just not a significant problem, definitely not worth arguing about.

Agreed, but that hasn't stopped arguments in the past. I prefer the automation button to default to "on" and don't recall it ever self-activating when I added data (such as volume, pan, etc). In fact, I know it didn't self-activate in the past so maybe that's new? If so, that would be cool but as Phil O says - not when you draw automation, which is how I enter it 99% of the time.

I don't have many instances when a track doesn't have some control data needing automation and, as a result, have always set it to default to on. I like it that way...